All the Negative people.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

And I was stating mine. Though, I question the use of sycophant in this conversation.

Also, the BS repeating of Picard's numbers with no basis in reality, as well as the continued insistence of insulting the art team. Yeah, it's not an opinion I can take seriously.

The show on the other hand, totally take it seriously.

You can say no basis in reality, but you have no basis for saying that. They won't release the numbers.. which in itself is a bit dubious. In any case, people can put together evidence, lay out the breadcrumbs and you might dismiss it out of hand if you don't like the conclusion.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Truth be told, I also don't trust "we got this covered".. they maybe hit one out of every twenty headlines. Still, other "leaks" are citing the same thing. In any case there is no way to no. So I will say I suspect. I can even justify that by talking to people that have tried to watch the show

 

[fireproof78]

You can say no basis in reality, but you have no basis for saying that. They won't release the numbers.. which in itself is a bit dubious. In any case, people can put together evidence, lay out the breadcrumbs and you might dismiss it out of hand if you don't like the conclusion.

Actually, I dismiss it out of hand because of lack of evidence. An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, whether I like it or not. However, the only evidence I have is that CBS keeps making these shows (to the best of their abilities). Basically, those breadcrumbs will be interpreted one way or another, based upon bias. And the bias towards CBS and Kurtzman is more than evident.

And, why do we need the numbers? That's literally none of our business.

 

[BillJ]

You can say no basis in reality, but you have no basis for saying that. They won't release the numbers.. which in itself is a bit dubious.

So, if they won't release the numbers, what is your basis for saying Picard lost half of its audience? YouTube?

 

[fireproof78]

So, if they won't release the numbers, what is your basis for saying Picard lost half of its audience? YouTube?

Hope springth eternal. If Picard gets cancelled then its proof positive that it isn't real Trek and Kurtzman will finally get fired for real this time (6th times the charm. Or maybe the 7th).

 

[Campe]

I started scrolling at "Mariner's a Mary Sue." Sigh. Here we go again.

 

[fireproof78]

I started scrolling at "Mariner's a Mary Sue." Sigh. Here we go again.

Yup. It's ridiculous, especially in a franchise that espouses diversity...

 

[Campe]

Yup. It's ridiculous, especially in a franchise that espouses diversity...

Right?!? I don't care if you find the show not funny or entertaining. I don't care if you start whining about the artwork. But when the argument comes down to the tired old "Mary Sue"-ness of it all? Yeah, that's when I wonder if you even Star Trek.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Yet she is always solving all the problems.. and she is talented at everything the script needs her to be good at, and she reminds the other characters and the audience that she is just that.. so yea.. mary sue
Only 2 episodes in.. it's not going to get better.

BTW huge Orville fan here, and it doesn't have this problem

 

[fireproof78]

Right?!? I don't care if you find the show not funny or entertaining. I don't care if you start whining about the artwork. But when the argument comes down to the tired old "Mary Sue"-ness of it all? Yeah, that's when I wonder if you even Star Trek.

It confuses me to no end. Like, I can appreciate most points of view, even ones that are extreme, but this is one that makes no sense! Like, stop watching things you don't like. Just because you don't like a character doesn't make them a Mary Sue. Just no.

But, I do hope that Lower Decks is around for a long time for them to hate. To misquote Hawkeye from MASH, "I hope its a long and healthy hate."

Yet she is always solving all the problems.. and she is talented at everything the script needs her to be good at, and she reminds the other characters and the audience that she is just that.. so yea.. mary sue
Only 2 episodes in.. it's not going to get better.

BTW huge Orville fan here, and it doesn't have this problem

I hope you continue to enjoy the Orville.

 

[Vger23]

And that's where I knew the conversation could no longer be taken seriously.

You're more resilient than I am. I lost my interest in any "discussion" here:

The show is stupid. Mariner is a mary sue.

 

[BillJ]

Yet she is always solving all the problems.. and she is talented at everything the script needs her to be good at, and she reminds the other characters and the audience that she is just that.. so yea.. mary sue

Her parents are career Starfleet officers, she likely grew up on starships and Starfleet installations, meaning she is probably one of the most experienced people on the Cerritos. She should be solving all kinds of problems, especially in comparison to her peers. It would be unrealistic if she didn't.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Her parents are career Starfleet officers, she likely grew up on starships and Starfleet installations, meaning she is probably one of the most experienced people on the Cerritos. She should be solving all kinds of problems, especially in comparison to her peers. It would be unrealistic if she didn't.

Yup.. and Rey lived on a desert planet, which means she can fix anything, fight trained masters, hit stormtroopers shooting blindly, and swim.. because she lived and struggled.

 

[BillJ]

Yup.. and Rey lived on a desert planet, which means she can fix anything, fight trained masters, hit stormtroopers shooting blindly, and swim.. because she lived and struggled.

Damn, you still can't let Rey go, you may have a mild obsession with her.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Her parents are career Starfleet officers, she likely grew up on starships and Starfleet installations, meaning she is probably one of the most experienced people on the Cerritos. She should be solving all kinds of problems, especially in comparison to her peers. It would be unrealistic if she didn't.

a mary sue is not just about what can or cannot be "explained" by the background of the character. If the audience can expct a character to solve every problem just because they expect her to be good at everything .. that's when you get closer to a mary sue. The plots of this episode is Brad tries, but Beckett shows him up and explains why she is better than him.. background or not she is a mary sue

 

[fireproof78]

Yup.. and Rey lived on a desert planet, which means she can fix anything, fight trained masters, hit stormtroopers shooting blindly, and swim.. because she lived and struggled.

Yes, actually. But irrelevant. Mariner is not a Mary Sue. She's closer to Robin Leffler with a bit of Ro.

 

[BillJ]

a mary sue is not just about what can or cannot be "explained" by the background of the character. If the audience can expct a character to solve every problem just because they expect her to be good at everything .. that's when you get closer to a mary sue. The plots of this episode is Brad tries, but Beckett shows him up and explains why she is better than him.. background or not she is a mary sue

Kirk and Spock must be "Mary Sue's" because they solve every problem in most every episode of the original Star Trek. Or, I know its crazy, they solve all the problems because they are the central characters and stars of the show.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk and Spock must be "Mary Sue's" because they solve every problem in most every episode of the original Star Trek. Or, I know its crazy, they solve all the problems because they are the central characters and stars of the show.

Kirk is a total Mary Sue. That's why even when he defies orders and violates treaties he's still captain...

 

[BillJ]

That's why even when he defies orders and violates treaties he's still captain...

I think that has more to do with Starfleet having discipline issues. Picard violated the Prime Directive nine times in 3+ years as Enterprise captain per "The Drumhead".

Which helps explain why Mariner is still in Starfleet, even though she has discipline issues.

 

[Vger23]

You two gentlemen @BillJ and @fireproof78 are such good sports sometimes.

Kudos to you, my good fellows.