As someone who loves baseball, and Trek, I find this one fun, but unnecessary. Thanks for the lackluster Federation Anthem, all the jokes, and negative character development!
All 755 live-action episodes ranked
- Thread starter BoTWoT
- Start date
If I were to rank every episode of Star Trek (or at least every episode of a series) in exact order, according to my preferences, I'd rate each scene of individually, average it out for the episode as a whole, repeat the process until I rated all of them, and then rank them in the order I rated them. My only standard in rating a scene would be how much I got out of it: whether it was entertaining, insightful, compelling, or the like.
Of course, this is never going to happen, because I don't have the time to do it the way I would do it, but that's how I'd go about it.
Of course, this is never going to happen, because I don't have the time to do it the way I would do it, but that's how I'd go about it.
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Solid plan...for a 5 year mission!
His actions are worse, it's true. But does he act more painfully out of character in that one?
If Sisko hadn't been such a D-bag, it would have been fine.
Siskp doesn't seem to do very well in holodeck/suite episodes in general. While his objections to Vic Fontaine's nightclub ("Badda-bing, Badda-bang") were certainly valid, they would exist in any pre-1960's historical period in the US and probably Europe, including baseball games. And despite how deep-rooted his objections were, he seemed to get over them very quickly.
By his logic, he shouldn't have enjoyed baseball because it was once segregated.
There's a difference between recreating baseball games in the Late-20th or 21st Century and recreating baseball games in the Mid-20th Century or earlier. There was no segregation in Buck Bokai's time, so I see it as apples and oranges, and I think Sisko sees it the same way.
He went along with going to Vic's because he didn't want to get into an argument with Kassidy. She had good intentions behind her argument about the way things should've been, but Sisko still has his own opinion and chose to back down.
I think there's a very dangerous tendency for people to look back at earlier times as being better than they were. I appreciated that they had Sisko say something, just as a reminder that no, it wasn't as great as it can be made to appear. It would be especially fresh in his mind given what he went through during "Far Beyond the Stars" in the previous season.
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I agree that a few lines about it are perfectly within Sisko's character and Avery Brook's general "being". But overall, it doesn't feel like Sisko in the episode. Love giving Avery Brooks a chance to sing, though! As for baseball, we know at least Jake was watching holo-baseball going back to the 60's, so it would feel even more out of character if Sisko hadn't at some point outside of cannon camera time played a Jackie Robinson replay or something.
I agree that his feelings were justified, especially given his experience as Benny Russell. He just seemed to get over them rather quickly. Certainly he could have wished Kasidy luck without needing to come in on the "caper".
My full thoughts on what we've just been talking about can be found in the last 2 episodes contained here. In general, let's get this one out of the way. You guys tell me why these aren't in the category of "Not Quite Trek", and then we can move on to what I think we'll have less controversy on for a while in this list. The first 2 episodes mentioned are Trek, but this is where they are on the list, though the absurdity of them are a nice transition segway into the rest that are here as a cop out. Plain and simple. Episodes that are mediocre to great tv, but are highly problematic in ranking against the rest of Star Trek. So I've put them in a place near the bottom, but above most of the absolute worst of Trek, signifying they're watchable tv, but take them all with a grain of salt.
Watched your fourth/fifth episodes.
I didn't have any major disagreements this time. A couple of episodes you call really bad I'd consider to be more mediocre than anything. However, I am noticing a trend that you seem to have a much greater dislike of...silliness...in Trek than I do.
Star Trek is not something like The Expanse (few things are). Camp and cheese are a central part of the franchise IMHO. And I'm willing to forgive nonsensical plots as long as I'm somewhat entertained.
I didn't have any major disagreements this time. A couple of episodes you call really bad I'd consider to be more mediocre than anything. However, I am noticing a trend that you seem to have a much greater dislike of...silliness...in Trek than I do.
Star Trek is not something like The Expanse (few things are). Camp and cheese are a central part of the franchise IMHO. And I'm willing to forgive nonsensical plots as long as I'm somewhat entertained.
It depends if the sillyness adds to the plot. Most of the time Trek tries it, it fails. However there are some hilarious and fun episodes near the top. What do the silly episodes explore about the human condition? You can't build an entire episode around sillyness either, which a couple of these tried to do. At the same time, you should be able to tell by this point that I don't even take this 100% seriously, with a semi-satirical narration and the satire roll at the end.
I still am at a loss for what makes Trek Trek here in this. I'm trying, listening to videos, etc, but the definition continues to elude me.
For instance, "The Big Goodbye." It's slammed hard for being a terrible holodeck episode, yet it is the first one so how is it supposed to be retroactively aware of the holodeck episode rules, for want of a better word? Wouldn't the Big Goodbye be adding to the franchise by the sheer definition of first exploring the holodeck?
For instance, "The Big Goodbye." It's slammed hard for being a terrible holodeck episode, yet it is the first one so how is it supposed to be retroactively aware of the holodeck episode rules, for want of a better word? Wouldn't the Big Goodbye be adding to the franchise by the sheer definition of first exploring the holodeck?
Was the plot any good? Not really. The holodeck rules are some of the least of it. Joe Cabbot in Reservoir Dogs is a way cooler use of this actor in basically the same roll! It's cliche Maltese Falcon meets Casablanca!
I'm going to sound incredibly pedantic here but it's not my intent. However, if the plot is bad that makes it not Trek?
Above here when I posted it, I said,"The first 2 episodes mentioned are Trek, but this is where they are on the list, though the absurdity of them are a nice transition segway into the rest that are here as a cop out." The Royale at the bottom is probably the most Trek on the list. For one I'm not saying they're NOT Trek. I'm saying they're Not QUITE Trek. In other words, every one of these is where it is because it tried something outside the norms of the Trek sandbox, and either it was terrible, had negative character development, or was just a cliche mashup of other movies and tv from another genre. I have to name each episode something. There are 6 episodes in this block. 4 I would definitely consider, "Not Quite Trek," base on the above criteria. The other two, The Big Goodbye and The Royale, are definitely in the same vein, but are just plain bad and ended up right where they are on the list. If you think a change is waranted, please tell me what episodes in the franchise are worse, and we can consider making changes in the first retrospective and reranking episode. The other 4 episodes are just so far outside the 'Trek Sandbox', and are nearly impossible to rank objectively. So, they are packaged here. Near, but not at the bottom. I enjoy all of them except 11:59, but they each have there own unique problems that makes them not feel like Trek. I hope this has cleared some things up.
It doesn't but I appreciate it the effort. Regardless, still interesting to see your perspective.
What you want is an operational definition of "Not Quite Trek" and what I'm telling you in many words above, is that these are episodes that CAN NOT be objectively ranked easily with the rest of Trek. So they were grouped with some similar themes near, but not at the bottom of the list. I laid out episode for episode what the unique problems with each were. I'd rather get them out of the way now, so we can move on to more sci-fi episodes.
I understand the premise. The objective standards are what I still am struggling with of what defines "Trek.". Again, it's a fair effort that simply is a struggle for my poor brain at the moment.
751. "The Alternative Factor" (TOS) --> I don't hate it, I just think it's forgettable, except for the fake beard.
750. "The Conscience of the King" (TOS) --> I hardcore disagree with this one. I like this episode. I also used to work in theater. So there might be some bias on my part.
749. "The Naked Now" (TNG) --> This is a guilty pleasure of mine. I like watching the crew "drunk" and I'd gladly take it over several other episodes.
748. "Miri" (TOS) --> Ehhh... I'm not a fan of this one.
747. "Who Mourns for Adonais?" (TOS) --> I don't care for this one either.
746. "Spock's Brain" (TOS) --> Just like "The Naked Now", this is another guilty pleasure of mine.
How are there no VOY or ENT episodes yet?
750. "The Conscience of the King" (TOS) --> I hardcore disagree with this one. I like this episode. I also used to work in theater. So there might be some bias on my part.
749. "The Naked Now" (TNG) --> This is a guilty pleasure of mine. I like watching the crew "drunk" and I'd gladly take it over several other episodes.
748. "Miri" (TOS) --> Ehhh... I'm not a fan of this one.
747. "Who Mourns for Adonais?" (TOS) --> I don't care for this one either.
746. "Spock's Brain" (TOS) --> Just like "The Naked Now", this is another guilty pleasure of mine.
How are there no VOY or ENT episodes yet?
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