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Alien civilisations too stupid to exist.

I was saying that Humans recognised their primitive features and began to find them unattractive, as we still do, so our looks changed from being animalistic to a much more idealised form. As apes, our forms were mostly about function, which is why apes are so ugly.
 
Apes are not ugly to apes. Beauty has nothing to do with evolution, it is entirely a question of perception.
 
But the earliest Humans had something that the other animals did not, which is sentience, self-awareness. Awareness enough to begin to change their self-perception, which apes and other animals cannot do.
 
But they are not changing it on the basis of some objective natural beauty which can be extrapolated to alien intelligences from completely different environments and gene pools.

Human beauty is irrelevant to non-humans. There's no reason at all to believe aliens must look aesthetically pleasing to us.
 
Who is to say apes or animals are not sentient?

Just because we walk around on our two legs and can talk doesn't make us more sentient.
I think people need to be reminded of the definition of sentience. It means the ability to perceive or feel subjectively - an ability which most or all organisms with nervous systems possess. The term does not relate to an organism's level of cognition or sapience.
 
Yeah, but you know what people MEAN using the word sentience. It's not at all unusual for word usage and word definition to differ. If someone says, "animals lack Human sentience," you know what they're saying, or what they're trying to say. In any event, yes, there are a few animals - a very few - who can recognise themselves in a mirror. Amongst these, believe it or not, are a couple species of birds ... Eurasian magpies, amongst them. Whales pass on what could be arguably defined as their "culture." Elephants, famously, recognise the skeletons of their own as being dead elephants and seem to act very respectfully towards them. There are many examples throughout The Wild Kingdom.™ But even a magpie can't break free of instinct and fly to the Moon.

How Mankind broke through that barrier is a complete mystery to scientists, even now, and it's ourselves!!! It should be obvious how it happened, but we may never fully understand it. But as far as an Alien Species would go, I remain convinced that they would not look animalistic, as some have prophesied. I believe that once Human-level awareness is achieved, primitive features start becoming unattractive. They don't want to look like animals, even on a subconscious level and begin to breed away from that pattern to something more sleek and developed-looking. And if they have no qualms about using Genetic Engineering on their own, then the results are going to be even more distinct and different from the animal kingdom they're surrounded with.
 
Yeah, but you know what people MEAN using the word sentience. It's not at all unusual for word usage and word definition to differ. If someone says, "animals lack Human sentience," you know what they're saying, or what they're trying to say. In any event, yes, there are a few animals - a very few - who can recognise themselves in a mirror. Amongst these, believe it or not, are a couple species of birds ... Eurasian magpies, amongst them. Whales pass on what could be arguably defined as their "culture." Elephants, famously, recognise the skeletons of their own as being dead elephants and seem to act very respectfully towards them. There are many examples throughout The Wild Kingdom.™ But even a magpie can't break free of instinct and fly to the Moon.

How Mankind broke through that barrier is a complete mystery to scientists, even now, and it's ourselves!!! It should be obvious how it happened, but we may never fully understand it. But as far as an Alien Species would go, I remain convinced that they would not look animalistic, as some have prophesied. I believe that once Human-level awareness is achieved, primitive features start becoming unattractive. They don't want to look like animals, even on a subconscious level and begin to breed away from that pattern to something more sleek and developed-looking. And if they have no qualms about using Genetic Engineering on their own, then the results are going to be even more distinct and different from the animal kingdom they're surrounded with.


I tend to like this thought process and agree
 
Personally, I believe that Humanity is likely the oldest civilization in this Galaxy -- and, perhaps, the only. And I'm fine with that. If only certain knowledge of such wasn't so elusive. With all of our listening and with all of the presumed message sending these aliens have been up to ... the fact that we haven't even picked up a commercial of aliens selling sneakers seems to suggest that we're the only game in town.
 
Personally, I believe that Humanity is likely the oldest civilization in this Galaxy -- and, perhaps, the only. And I'm fine with that. If only certain knowledge of such wasn't so elusive. With all of our listening and with all of the presumed message sending these aliens have been up to ... the fact that we haven't even picked up a commercial of aliens selling sneakers seems to suggest that we're the only game in town.
I am not saying I disagree, but we should keep in mind that we still can not monitor a great majority of our galaxy. Much of it is blocked by the galactic core and some of it is too far away. Also, even our own transmissions emanating from our planet would be hard to detect from nearby distances using our present-day technology. This means that civilizations just a little older than we would not be detectable either because their signals are too weak, or because their signals have not had time to reach us yet.

Remember, even our own first transmissions are no more than about 100 light years out from our planet. Hence, nobody farther than this could have heard us. This is only about 10,000 to 20,000 stars which is a tiny fraction of the over 100 billion stars in our galaxy. Even if they heard, we would not yet have heard back from them, as it takes another (up to) 100 years to get an answer back.

It may also be that civilizations much more advanced are not detectable because they are deliberately quiet or that they use a different technology that we don't even know about and hence can't even think to try and detect it.

Perhaps we are even known by a more advanced alien race, but they consider us like a colony of killer bees, and say, "don't let those guys detect us, lest they come try to sting us, and force us to exterminate them."

But, the real interesting thing is that even if it is only 1 technological species per galaxy, there are still over 100 billion galaxies in the universe.
 
Steven, your arguments are only true and very full of proof. The movie "Communion" which is a late 90's offering about making first contact with aliens is not without its faults and shortcomings. But the speech that Ellie (Jodie Foster) makes near the end of the film has always moved me. She gets very emotional and wound up over what contact with extraterrestrials actually means for us, what we want it for, what we hope to get from it, on a very basic level. And I hope that if there are aliens out there and we do get to know them, those things that she talks about come to fruition ...

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If I were an advanced alien civilization, I think I'd prefer to keep quiet and hidden to avoid attracting the attention of any potential beserker civs, who might covet my stuff and want to kill or enslave me. Speculation about other lifeforms might be best left to entertainment. SETI seems to have the implicit assumption that alien civs must necessarily be benign, peaceful, and altristic in order to have passed through the Great Filter. I can't see any reason why this must necessarily be the case. It could actually be like the TV series Deadwood out there.
 
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