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Alex Kurtzman: 'Star Trek: Discovery' Will Spark Debate And Adhere To Canon

OK -- I'm going a little off-topic here to lighten the mood a little, but I'm wondering if we (we fans) have settled on an abbreviation yet for this show?

Is it DIS (as in the quoted post above)? Or maybe DSC?
...Or (my favorite ;) ) "STD"


I use DIS and DSC, not sure which will win yet.
 
I don't want new Trek to look exactly like TOS. But I do want bright, clean, glossy retro-futurism instead of more of this brutish, industrial, dull and cluttered look that keeps rearing its ugly head in contemporary science fiction.

The fifties and sixties gave us some of the most memorable modernist aesthetics ever, with sleek and streamlined designs in the areas of architecture, interior layouts, furniture, everyday objects, and much more. TOS was more of a "lo-res" expression of this, due to the limits of broadcast television of the time. I would love to see a "hi-res" version of this kind of aesthetic, expressed with a big-budget approach. Just picture Mad Men in space. Imagine that TOS was what the universe looked like while you were squinting, and then think of how much more you would see if you opened your eyes all the way. I really can't imagine anything cooler than that.

Kor
 
I'm not sure what exactly is great about it?

Nothing says "excitement" to me like consistent warp values! :lol:
You must you have clutched your pearls when you saw TMP and clutched them even tighter when STWOK came along
 
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So I'll again ask the question: if TNG was set in 2265, would you buy it being the "Prime" timeline if the studio told you it was? Or, if they put Discovery in 2365, would you still consider it "Prime", if the studio told you to?
The difference between TOS and TNG is so small I think I would.
I don't give two shits about the opinion of someone who abused their position to commit sexual assault, and also who are too dead to care what I think.

And I'm not sure why you're so hostile over a TV show?
Come on, Bill. You love knocking the Great Bird of his perch as much as the next guy. :lol:
 
I have been trying to get this point across for days now: These decisions are not strictly about functionality. Different people creating artworks on the same subject matter will create things that are different. Not because there's some mechanistic need to do so, but because they are individuals with their own individual styles, and art is about expressing your own style and vision. Nobody would bother to become a creator if all they could do was just copy what people did before them. We create because we want to present something in our own style, our own voice. When you're hired as the creator or showrunner or production designer or whatever of a new work set in an existing universe, that means you get the right to put your own stamp on it, to do it in your own way.

Besides, Star Trek should not be retro. It was never meant to be retro. It was meant to be cutting-edge, innovative, daring, groundbreaking, forward-looking. If it becomes nothing more than an exercise in nostalgia for an aging audience, then it will have lost everything that originally defined it and it will be nothing but a soulless imitation of what it once was. That would not be preserving the essence of Star Trek, that would be smothering it to death.




The official abbreviation is DSC.

When I say retro I should proably say retro futuristic. Something that doesn't just feel old but also unique. For example lets say they did use sets like looked very close to what you might see on TOS. Maybe instead of just trying to recreate the TOS bridge you went for a bigger Battlestar Galatica bridge instead. Maybe you have a station for the tatical officer and you still bring in things like a robot and you have more extra's always on the bridge making it look like a busy place with constant movement like everyone is always having something important to do and not just someone siting in front of a computer console.

Basically take something old, mix it around in a new type of location, add more detail to it and then add in modern Kelvin Universe camera work.

I understand they want to add their own stuff but isn't that always going to be a issue when working on something that is already established? It comes with certain restrictions and things people expect. Not to mention if someone really wants to really make changes then a full blown remake would make more sense. If they wanted to use something from the prime universe they could still use it and simply dump the rest.

Which sort of brings up how pointless continuity seems to be to me if a show feels 2 different. When TNG got started they made a point of trying to avoid a bunch of the old aliens and if the Ferengi hadn't floped I think it might have barely even used the Romulans which means the show would have even been even less connected to TOS.

Jason
 
I don't know. Outside of the odd nostalgia episode, when was Star Trek's design ever really retro? I guess things like T'Pol's viewfinder being kind of a nod to Spock's on the original bridge or the curves on the Enterprise from JJ Abrams' Star Trek were kind of retrofuturistic callbacks, but at large the design ethic at the base of every Star Trek production, especially in the context of the set design, always seemed to be to create a probable, somewhat realistic and cool look into our future. Or at least something most people would see as futuristic and not nostalgic.

Trek has never needed to really recreate the look of a older show on a weekly basis so the need for something to feel or not feel retro hasn't really been a huge issue. Enterprise was far enough from TOS that they didn't really need to recreate the look. If anything they needed to look more contempoary than futuristic which is why I figure they went with the submarine look. It must have been that or futurisitc NASA.

Jason
 
I understand they want to add their own stuff but isn't that always going to be a issue when working on something that is already established? It comes with certain restrictions and things people expect.

I always roll my eyes when the word "expect" comes up in these discussions. Creativity is about giving people what they don't expect! If the only things you have to offer the audience are things they already have in their minds, then what's the point? Good fiction should surprise the audience. It should confound and shatter their expectations. It should give them things they didn't even realize they wanted and make them question things they've always taken for granted.


Not to mention if someone really wants to really make changes then a full blown remake would make more sense.

I feel the same way. But I wasn't hired to create this show, so I don't get to make that decision. Neither to I get to say that the people who did create the show are "doing it wrong" just because it's different from my approach. This is how it works -- every creator gets to do things their own way. If I were doing it my way, others would disagree with my approach, but I'd expect my fellow creators to respect my right to do things differently than they would. So by the same token, I respect the Discovery team's right to do it differently than I would have.


Which sort of brings up how pointless continuity seems to be to me if a show feels 2 different. When TNG got started they made a point of trying to avoid a bunch of the old aliens and if the Ferengi hadn't floped I think it might have barely even used the Romulans which means the show would have even been even less connected to TOS.

That's basically what Roddenberry wanted -- to take TNG in new directions and avoid reusing too many elements from the old show. He had to be talked into having a Klingon regular; he just wanted the Klingons to be at peace with the UFP so that he could move on to using other villains. I think the return of the Romulans was partly because Roddenberry was effectively no longer running the show by that point, and partly because the writers' strike required them to film the first-draft script of "The Neutral Zone" without any changes. But even so, the return of the Romulans was really intended to be the setup for introducing the Borg. When the plans to bring on the Borg were delayed by the strike and other factors, that left a villain void that the Romulans ended up filling, mainly because they were already there. Or so it seems to me, anyway.
 
Which didn't stop people from complaining.

That might have been the case but I don't recall much complaints about the look. What I most remember was complaints about the show being a prequel. The idea being that you couldn't do anything new since the future was already known, which is kind interesting because I don't hear those complaints with "Discovery." With Discovery it's all about either the looks and whether it is in the Prime Universe. A show set in the past seems to be fine now if only those other issues were solved or answered.

Jason
 
One word "Akiraprise"

I had forgotten that one. Yep that was a big issue. I don't think their was much hate about the sets though if I recall. I think maybe the food replicator thing was something of a issue and the coloring on the uniforms looked more like nods to TNG than it did TOS.

Jason
 
I had forgotten that one. Yep that was a big issue. I don't think their was much hate about the sets though if I recall. I think maybe the food replicator thing was something of a issue and the coloring on the uniforms looked more like nods to TNG than it did TOS.

Jason
They complained about everything: the jumpsuits, the monitors, the chairs, the rank pips, the Vulcans, and even the dog.
 
I'm not talking about the entire concept, obviously. I'm talking about the parts left over from 1960s or earlier pulp sensibilities, the parts that haven't aged as well as the rest. Stuff like a crew dominated by white men with only the odd token otherwise. In an "alternate timeline" TOS like Kelvin, one that's supposedly branched off of the same origin, the characters need to be the same people with different lives, so not too much can be changed. But in a wholesale reboot, you could have a female Kirk, a black McCoy, a cyborg Scotty, whatever you wanted. You could erase the chauvinism of the original completely rather than having to tiptoe around it while pretending it's still in continuity. There are also outdated ideas like the relatively primitive medicine in TOS, a grasp of neurology and genetics (and forensics, in "The Conscience of the King") that's less advanced than what we have today, let alone 300 years from now. There's the lack of nanotechnology and genetic medicine and other advances that will be commonplace long before the 2260s.

And of course there are the "near-future" historical events that have already not happened. We're 20 years past when the Eugenics Wars were supposed to occur. We're supposed to abandon interplanetary sleeper ships for faster space drives next year, in 2018. We're not far out from the Bell Riots or the Ares IV flight. The more time that passes, the more explicit Trek history is going to become outdated. What happens to Trek when it's actually 2063 in the real world? If it hasn't been rebooted by then, it's going to seem like a completely antiquated view of the future that never came to pass. If it's to remain relevant, sooner or later it'll have to start over with a new continuity that builds forward from the present rather than the 1960s.

The whole value of adaptations and reboots is that you can be selective in what you keep and discard. You can keep the core elements that are important -- the characters, their relationships, their values and goals, their overall situations -- but discard the side elements that age poorly and end up working against the intended message of the story. It's the same kind of updating that's been done to stories throughout history, keeping their essential ideas alive by adapting the elements around them to fit a new era and a new audience.




Yes, but more viewers today probably associate the pre-TOS era with the blue jumpsuits from ENT and the Kelvin uniforms from ST '09 (which had three colors but used blue for command) than with the drab turtlenecks from the pilots. The older generation of dedicated TOS fans is nostalgic for those drab turtlenecks, but to the mass of people in the general public, ENT and the new movies are probably more familiar than the original pilots. And the DSC uniforms seem like they could be plausible descendants of those uniform styles.

Anyway, most viewers don't care that much about continuity details. They just want to be entertained. They want the stories to be engaging and they want the show to look good. As long as the uniforms look good, most audiences won't care much about how they line up with previous shows' uniforms.
Why have a female Kirk and cyborg Scotty? Why not have a female Jane and cyborg Bill? Was it so wrong to have Scotty with his original traits and 'Scottiness'. Discovery is progressing with diversity but the default of the original characters shouldn't have them reduced to being not appreciated for how they once were.

Fiction and especially science fiction is flexible but there is still a sense of Star Trek being like a 'period piece'. Yes it's not actual history (not saying it is) but if it were and we wanted to do a story on George Washington and set it ten years before he was President.. do we HAVE to make George a different gender or racial profile or age or something that feels comfortable to our current sensibilities? Again I appreciate Star Trek is not historical fact but good story telling within pre-determined markers (and TOS is one of those) still has to be consistent to the viewer or reader. You tell people they are ten miles away from Kansas and if they find out there is no way they're going to get to Kansas they will think they are being jerked around.

Contention here is that it is a little bit of this and a little bit of that. A wholesale reboot would have control over the whole development and connections, it would be the one vision. However this way there is some of the original story integrity promised but the time frame is new and the filter is modernised.

Yet I agree, if it entertains, that is all it has to do.
 
Yup, it's the same cycle I've seen before. First the new thing is roundly condemned for getting everything wrong, then a decade or so later the next new thing comes along and people are saying the last (or next-to-last) new thing was never considered that bad, was it? We always average out the past, gloss over the jarring bits, fit everything into a narrative that makes sense to us, and forget the parts that don't fit the narrative. It's how human memory works. It's why the illusion of nostalgia exists -- we see the past as better than the present because our memories have weeded out the worst bits of the past, while the worst bits of the present are still clear to see. The past was no different, we've just changed it more in our memories.


Why have a female Kirk and cyborg Scotty? Why not have a female Jane and cyborg Bill?

The same reason we have a black Nick Fury and a female Asian-American Dr. Watson and and a gay Sulu and so on. The same reason Helen Mirren played Prospero and the Capulets in Still Star-Crossed are black. Because it's not enough to create less famous new characters for minority or female actors to play and minority or female audiences to relate to; they should have the same right as everyone else to play or relate to the existing, famous characters, the legends, the cultural icons that everyone shares. Little girls should have the right to imagine that they could be Captain Kirk or Sherlock Holmes as much as they have the right to imagine they could be Wonder Woman. "Separate but equal" is never equal.
 
Ugg. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Can't wait for Wonder Man.
It's been done.

Characters get updated and rebooted all of the time. Superman and Batman are constantly being reinvented. The versions from Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #27 are different that the 2017 versions. In the Silver Age DC and Marvel revamped many Golden Age characters. Hawkman went from a reincarnated Egyptian prince to being an alien policeman. Green Lantern went from a modern day Aladdin to be one a corps of intergalactic cops. The Golden Age Human Torch was an android, the Silver Age Human Torch is a human teenager.
 
It's been done.

Characters get updated and rebooted all of the time. Superman and Batman are constantly being reinvented. The versions from Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #27 are different that the 2017 versions. In the Silver Age DC and Marvel revamped many Golden Age characters. Hawkman went from a reincarnated Egyptian prince to being an alien policeman. Green Lantern went from a modern day Aladdin to be one a corps of intergalactic cops. The Golden Age Human Torch was an android, the Silver Age Human Torch is a human teenager.
Have you ever seen Once Upon A Time? I quite enjoyed the first three seasons but when they got to the Camelot story it was like Arthur and Lancelot and Merlin had all gone to the same modelling school and were the same age. That was sweet and gratifying to eye.. but crap! Merlin should be old, that's where wisdom comes from. Of course tell me he's aged in dog years and I'll buy it because I'm flexible.

I reckon why not have a female Batman and male Batgirl.? Yeah, fab idea. Can't wait for the next version of Sherlock Holmes he'll be five years old and Watson will be his pet hamster.
 
I reckon why not have a female Batman and male Batgirl.? Yeah, fab idea. Can't wait for the next version of Sherlock Holmes he'll five years old and Watson will be his pet dog.
We already have a female Batman, she's called "Batwoman". The male Batgirl is Nightwing.
We had Young Sherlock Holmes way back in the 80's. He and Watson were teens.
Watson is an Asian-American woman in "Elementary".
 
We already have a female Batman, she's called "Batwoman". The male Batgirl is Nightwing.
We had Young Sherlock Holmes way back in the 80's. He and Watson were teens.
Watson is an Asian-American woman in "Elementary".
NO that's not good enough, a female Batman should be called Batman, otherwise she IS Batwoman.

I liked Elementary as a story but it didn't satisfy being Sherlock Holmes.
 
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