Let's not watch this show, but just judge it and kill it by a thousand criticisms.
Alex Kurtzman: 'Star Trek: Discovery' Will Spark Debate And Adhere To Canon
- Thread starter RAMA
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It's neither. It's not an art project. And not a fan committee project. It's a business. The main feedback is ratings and views. If not many watch, that'll kill it.
You're assuming all art is quality. Sturgeon's law disagrees. Art can't exist in a vacuum. Artists who can't handle negative feedback should never bother trying to create anything.
Pretty certain he didn't.
And there will always be someone who considers a piece to be 'quality.'
1. Not all artists create for public consumption.
2. Not responding to critics is an acceptable method of handling feedback. An encouraged one, even. Especially on the internet.
3. Considering how pandering to internet fans worked out for Heroes, Enterprise, Serentity, Glee etc, it'd be an idiot who lets us be the final arbiters of 'quality' and 'audience demand.'.
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What I would like to know is how would people have felt if Sarek and thus the new Vulcans in the new show were given purple skin and horns instead of pointy ears? What if the uniforms they were wearing, were Iron Man looking battle suits? This might all look really cool and hey I think it would make for a interesting new take but would people really say that they could see that being part of the prime universe?
Seems to me it isn't changes that people have a problem with but the level of changes that go to far to be believable. It also doesn't help when the old klingons don't even look all that bad. I mean it makes sense to update the suits because I think they were still using stuff that went all the way back to TMP. Ships can be upgrated as well but I think even then you would want at least one ship that looks close to the DY cruiser.
The ridges and hair though never seemed like a bad look. I think you might want more diversity of looks with some having beards and some not. Some have more extensive forehead ridges and others are small like General Chang. In fact Chang is good place to look at when trying to create a more modern Klingon look. He looked different but still felt like he belonged.
I don't see what's wrong with the idea of doing something that looks new but still feels familiar. "Discovery" does this if we were talking about a post Voyager setting. Granted maybe the big issue is simply that the new Klingons don't look better than what we have gotten on the past.
If you going to change a look that has more or less been around since 1980 and is loved enough by fans that people learn their language and dress up like them and are popular enough to have a series regular on 3 shows and a slew of popular guest stars, then you should make sure what you do is a improvement.
Does anyone think these new looking Klingons stand a chance to make the same impact as the older looking Klingons? We have seen some improvements when altering old looks on a massive scale. Such as the TOS klingons and the Trill but every other changed alien race has always felt similiar enough to what the first look was for people not to complain to much. Aliens like the Romulans,Andorians,Borg and so forth.
Jason
Seems to me it isn't changes that people have a problem with but the level of changes that go to far to be believable. It also doesn't help when the old klingons don't even look all that bad. I mean it makes sense to update the suits because I think they were still using stuff that went all the way back to TMP. Ships can be upgrated as well but I think even then you would want at least one ship that looks close to the DY cruiser.
The ridges and hair though never seemed like a bad look. I think you might want more diversity of looks with some having beards and some not. Some have more extensive forehead ridges and others are small like General Chang. In fact Chang is good place to look at when trying to create a more modern Klingon look. He looked different but still felt like he belonged.
I don't see what's wrong with the idea of doing something that looks new but still feels familiar. "Discovery" does this if we were talking about a post Voyager setting. Granted maybe the big issue is simply that the new Klingons don't look better than what we have gotten on the past.
If you going to change a look that has more or less been around since 1980 and is loved enough by fans that people learn their language and dress up like them and are popular enough to have a series regular on 3 shows and a slew of popular guest stars, then you should make sure what you do is a improvement.
Does anyone think these new looking Klingons stand a chance to make the same impact as the older looking Klingons? We have seen some improvements when altering old looks on a massive scale. Such as the TOS klingons and the Trill but every other changed alien race has always felt similiar enough to what the first look was for people not to complain to much. Aliens like the Romulans,Andorians,Borg and so forth.
Jason
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That's what I hope or I wouldn't mind what we had with TNG/DS9 and that starfleet had 2 active looks going on at the same time. The TNG look and then the DS9 and later Voyager look. That doesn't even include the marines we saw in DS9 season 5 were Bashir and Jake go to that makeshift hospital after a Klingon attack has happened to that colony.
I think it would be cool if when we saw other Starships or bases we might see the more familiar looking uniforms from "The Cage." Granted I am still kind of not giving up on the idea that came to me, yesterday or the day before about how this series might be dealing with alternate universes on a regular basis so this could be both a prime and 3rd universe setting at the same time.
Jason
BUT as many have shown earlier in this thread "the look" you talk about has NEVER been 100% consistent from film to film (and even evolved/changed during TNG's run.) Plus we don't know the story behind these Klingons. The reaction seems the usual hyper Star Trek fan reaction to anything slightly different at first, namely: "OMG WHY CHANGE! It flies in the face of what's come! GR is spinning in his grave...his 'vision' corrupted...Nooooooooo!" Then after a while, when the NEXT Star Trek project his, these same guys are claiming what's coming doesn't match what was in the previous Star Trek project which is now accepted.
I've been watching Star Trek first run since age 6 in 1969. The above cycle of Star Trek fandom is how it's been since TAS hit the airwaves on Satura=day morning 1973 - then continued through the TOS feature film era, TNG, DS9, et. al. Most new Star Trek is held as NOT TREK! - until it is.
BUT as many have shown earlier in this thread "the look" you talk about has NEVER been 100% consistent from film to film (and even evolved/changed during TNG's run.) Plus we don't know the story behind these Klingons. The reaction seems the usual hyper Star Trek fan reaction to anything slightly different at first, namely: "OMG WHY CHANGE! It flies in the face of what's come! GR is spinning in his grave...his 'vision' corrupted...Nooooooooo!" Then after a while, when the NEXT Star Trek project his, these same guys are claiming what's coming doesn't match what was in the previous Star Trek project which is now accepted.
I've been watching Star Trek first run since age 6 in 1969. The above cycle of Star Trek fandom is how it's been since TAS hit the airwaves on Satura=day morning 1973 - then continued through the TOS feature film era, TNG, DS9, et. al. Most new Star Trek is held as NOT TREK! - until it is.
I agree that nothing is ever 100% consistent which is why I think most people judge the shows not on what is different but how much is still the same or familiar. Many of us have been spoiled because TNG/DS9?Voyager and even Enterprise did seem to align up with each other very well at least when it came to canon and uniforms and technology. Even DS9 which is I think the most unique with it's Carddisian look and it's sort of anti-Roddenberry vision still had enough things that were the same to make you feel like it was still in the same universe as TNG and the other Berman shows.
As for the Klingons I agree that we might be jumping the gun in how we judge them but with so little to go on we don't really have much of a choice because a Trek fan will never not have a opinion on anything doing with Trek no matter how little evidence we have.
For me the looks don't inspire much confidence. I don't think they look like a natural extension from what we have seen and it doesn't help that even in a 3rd universe setting I don't think they look good as a new type of Klingon. Except the uniforms.
Jason
A new news article has been published at TrekToday:
Star Trek: Discovery Executive Producer Alex Kurtzman had words of encouragement for fans a bit nervous about the new Star Trek series....
Continue reading...
Star Trek: Discovery Executive Producer Alex Kurtzman had words of encouragement for fans a bit nervous about the new Star Trek series....
Continue reading...
Until the next iteration to hate. Apparently Abrams Trek is now the "good old days" when people understood what Trek was "really about" and those Klingons were not the best but not the worst.
Regardless, the audience has not seen every type of Klingon that ever existed, and the Klingons have demonstrated genetic engineering in the past. There are multiple, in universe, explanations that could be presented that explain why this particular Klingon looks how he does, and that it will likely fit with Prime continuity.
Oddly, like TMP.
Regardless, the audience has not seen every type of Klingon that ever existed, and the Klingons have demonstrated genetic engineering in the past. There are multiple, in universe, explanations that could be presented that explain why this particular Klingon looks how he does, and that it will likely fit with Prime continuity.
Oddly, like TMP.
(insert Keep Calm Meme/Can't Keep Calm Meme here)
The most telling pat to me, not the flay a dead targ, is the idea that at Star Trek's core is optimism. And I'm hoping that some of that can come through in the first episode so that there is optimism.
The most telling pat to me, not the flay a dead targ, is the idea that at Star Trek's core is optimism. And I'm hoping that some of that can come through in the first episode so that there is optimism.
You think that'll calm some folks nerves? Nahhh
I like what he says for the most part but I am kind of confused about what he is talking about with the different timelines and different universes. As far as I know we have only seen Trek in the Prime and Kelvin on a regular basis. We do have the mirror universe so I wonder if he is saying the show will have a story that crosses different universes or are they going to be using time travel.
Jason
Jason
He's just saying they're fans and that they understand the details about the timelines. It's meant to be reassuring. He's not implying that the show will be crossing or mixing timelines. He's just saying, we get it. In fact, we get it so much that we could tell you about the variety of timelines. In other words, they're informed fans.
That makes sense. Granted the "A timeline" was uttered again. Was this the second time they used that phrase to define the timeline? Once you can see as a misspoken word but 2 times it seems like they are trying to hint at something or maybe it's just to keep everyone guessing. They got to know about how we fans can take even a single word and find some hidden meaning into it.
Jason
It's the same interview. But it shows the context better. He doesn't want to talk about plot spoilers but instead he talks about the writing process where they are adhering to "a timeline."
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