Alex Kurtzman: 'Star Trek: Discovery' Will Spark Debate And Adhere To Canon

[Tarek71]

But that rifle was made from a real world SMG, so it doesn't look futuristic at all

Everything in all movies is made from modern components. It's not like you can go buy a real droid from an actual Jawa. But the end result looks far more like modern, contemporary and plausibly futuristic than the silly ray gun rifle Kirk had. Lucas calls them "ray guns". He uses the lingo of his childhood sci fi, but they don't look as retrofuturistic as what the Discoverse people have done.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But that rifle was made from a real world SMG, so it doesn't look futuristic at all

Well, SW wasn't ever going for futurism per se, but rather more like retro-futurism mixed with historical elements to yield the impression of something from a timeless future. It succeeded brilliantly, but it was always about trying to get the right gut reaction, so that the audience suspends disbelief, more than intellectual acceptance of its vision of advanced tech. Arguably, though, ST's goals, with respect to triggering suspension of disbelief on the gut level, aren't much different; TPTB don't want the audience pulled out the story, because it costs viewers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrofuturism

 

[fireproof78]

[


Yes, I mentioned the quality of ANH vs Cage which reflects partially the budget. Part of why ANH look can be preserved without as many modifications as the Cage look would. That's what I'm saying. But they are also better for Earths future than Disco's goofy retro uniforms, for instance.

The only reason the ANH hope can be preserved is that it was designed with the idea that it came from a "used" universe. That doesn't make it a vision of Earth's future.

Given some of the fashion choices made, even within the past century, humanity is hardly in a place to call things "goofy."

 

[CorporalClegg]

Most of the technology in TOS is antiquated, even by today's standards. To add to what Counterpart said, the whole point of postmodern retro-futurism is to slyly affirm and then deflect any anachronisms that might arise without having to break the fourth wall.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

the whole point of postmodern retro-futurism is to slyly affirm and then deflect any anachronisms that might arise without having to break the fourth wall.

Nicely put!

 

[Christopher]

But they are also better for Earths future than Disco's goofy retro uniforms, for instance.

First off, I don't know why you find DSC's uniforms "retro," let alone "goofy." The photos of them coming out of SDCC today make them look quite modern to me, and like a plausible advance from the ENT blue jumpsuits (which were extrapolated from present-day NASA jumpsuits).

Second, any generation's idea of what the future "should" look like is bound to seem ridiculous to the next generation. There is no objectively correct standard for assessing that.

 

[Tarek71]

The only reason the ANH hope can be preserved is that it was designed with the idea that it came from a "used" universe. That doesn't make it a vision of Earth's future.

Given some of the fashion choices made, even within the past century, humanity is hardly in a place to call things "goofy."

It can be preserved because of how non-dated, high quality and futuristic it still seems. The droids still look good. And not simply because SW is influential, as Christopher argues, but real world technological and robot evolution still leaves them as a plausible evolution from it without a dated 50, 60s 70s aesthetic would be harder to maintain plausibly.

 

[fireproof78]

It can be preserved because of how non-dated, high quality and futuristic it still seems. The droids still look good. And not simply because SW is influential, as Christopher argues, but real world technological and robot evolution still leaves them as a plausible evolution from it without a dated 50, 60s 70s aesthetic would be harder to maintain plausibly.

Because it isn't tied to our future. Otherwise, the computers from ANH are amusingly outdated.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The thing about Star Wars is, a person can take a design element--a building, a piece of clothing, a weapon, etc.--from just about any period of human history, add some Star Warsy blinkies and bells and whatnots and make it look like it belongs there.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Otherwise, the computers from ANH are amusingly outdated.

They certainly are. The command post of hangar bay 327 is all about the blinkenlights.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Just about every "computer" in Star Wars is heavily derivative of the ENIAC.

 

[Christopher]

It can be preserved because of how non-dated, high quality and futuristic it still seems. The droids still look good. And not simply because SW is influential, as Christopher argues, but real world technological and robot evolution still leaves them as a plausible evolution from it without a dated 50, 60s 70s aesthetic would be harder to maintain plausibly.

Star Wars has never tried to be plausible. And there is no way that C-3PO and R2D2 are plausible extrapolations of real 21st-century robotics. BB-8, maybe, but other SW droids are pure pulp. Although Threepio's design is largely a riff on Maria from Metropolis crossed with the Tin Woodman, making its influences even older than the pulps.

Again, the only reason this stuff doesn't seem dated to you is because you've spent the past few decades immersed in its aesthetic influence on pop culture. But it's based in designs and styles that were already retro when it was new. If the future ends up looking like Star Wars, it's only going to be because the designers of future technology are Star Wars fans.

 

[Tarek71]

Star Wars has never tried to be plausible. And there is no way that C-3PO and R2D2 are plausible extrapolations of real 21st-century robotics.

Sure they are. And they look fantastic. Not because they are familiar. A lot of things are familiar, but look horribly dated, silly and implausible.

Again, the only reason this stuff doesn't seem dated to you is because you've spent the past few decades immersed in its aesthetic influence on pop culture.

Not even close. Familiarity isn't the foundation of it. It's the very high quality production values, plausibility, realism and non-dated quality of them.

 

[Tarek71]

Because it isn't tied to our future. Otherwise, the computers from ANH are amusingly outdated.

It has nothing to do with being tied to our future. And I have said for the most part, when talking about SW art direction. There are anachronistic, dated bits. But it can be preserved to the extent that it does versus Cage because of the higher production values, and less dated by the aesthetic of it's real world production era.

 

[Tarek71]

First off, I don't know why you find DSC's uniforms "retro," let alone "goofy." The photos of them coming out of SDCC today make them look quite modern to me, and like a plausible advance from the ENT blue jumpsuits (which were extrapolated from present-day NASA jumpsuits).

Oh yeah, shimmery, glitterly metallic highlights and Zap Brannigan shoulder stripes look very modern. ENT actually did, precisely for the reason you indicated. This silliness, like Kelvins, is not a reasonable extrapolation of it. It's a higher production budget version of retrofuturistic classic sci fi.

 

[fireproof78]

It has nothing to do with being tied to our future. And I have said for the most part, when talking about SW art direction. There are anachronistic, dated bits. But it can be preserved to the extent that it does versus Cage because of the higher production values, and less dated by the aesthetic of it's real world production era.

Not exactly fair to compare a TV show pilot to a film, in terms of aesthetics or production values. Be far better to compare TMP to ANH.

And there are aspecs of Star Wars that still look very dated.

Oh yeah, shimmery, glitterly metallic highlights and Zap Brannigan shoulder stripes look very modern. ENT actually did, precisely for the reason you indicated. This silliness, like Kelvins, is not a reasonable extrapolation of it. It's a higher production budget version of retrofuturistic classic sci fi.

Clearly mileage will vary on this point. I think they flow very nicely fron ENT to Kelvin to DSC.

 

[Tarek71]

Not exactly fair to compare a TV show pilot to a film, in terms of aesthetics or production values. Be far better to compare TMP to ANH.

Agreed. I was originally remarking that while I thought [a modernized] Cage look should be kept as much as possible, I recognized that Rogue One is different for that reason. It was easier to keep a lot of the ANH look because of the very high production values it had, and I would say, less dated by its production era than Cage. Ie, I understand a new production today changing more about the Cage look than the ANH look. Not sure how that turned into the argument that it did. I don't get the impression most would really seriously dissent from that.

 

[fireproof78]

Agreed. I was originally remarking that while I thought [a modernized] Cage look should be kept as much as possible, I recognized that Rogue One is different for that reason. It was easier to keep a lot of the ANH look because of the very high production values it had, and I would say, less dated by its production era than Cage. Ie, I understand a new production today changing more about the Cage look than the ANH look. Not sure how that turned into the argument that it did. I don't get the impression most would really seriously dissent from that.

To be fair, even RO does not fit seamlessly with ANH and still has some contemporary production values.

Beyond that, the assertion that the ANH look was maintained because it some how fits the future Earth scenario is more my objection. ANH asthetic works because it isn't tied to a specific history from Earth.

 

[BillJ]

Fifty years have passed. Trek, and the rest of the world, is moving on.

I wish it were moving on. But the show's creators (I guess) are trying to have it both ways. Trek has needed the full-on reboot treatment for a long time.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Looks like something a high school band would wear, with a comm badge.

But enough about the monster maroons..