Spoilers AHSOKA series [Spoiler Discussion]
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I was watching a scene between Hera and Jacen Syndulla and I found myself wondering . . . had George Lucas ever established a family of Force users outside the Skywalker family line? I certainly don't recall any other family of Force users. And I had assumed that Lucas had allowed the Skywalkers to be the exception to the rule, due to Anakin's unusually high midichlorian count.
Is the Skywalker family the reason why Rian Johnson had created that asinine "anyone can be Force sensitive" crap? Or that Disney Studios had allowed both Sheev Palpatine and Kanan Jarrus to conceive Force sensitive offspring?
This makes perfect sense to me. Actually, I had noticed a difference in Ahsoka's demeanor as far back as "Star Wars Rebels". And this made sense to me, considering she was over a decade-and-a-half older than she was at the end of the Clone Wars.
Is the Skywalker family the reason why Rian Johnson had created that asinine "anyone can be Force sensitive" crap? Or that Disney Studios had allowed both Sheev Palpatine and Kanan Jarrus to conceive Force sensitive offspring?
This makes perfect sense to me. Actually, I had noticed a difference in Ahsoka's demeanor as far back as "Star Wars Rebels". And this made sense to me, considering she was over a decade-and-a-half older than she was at the end of the Clone Wars.
I mean, anyone can use the Force has been around since the early part of Lucas' ideas. It just takes training and focus to do it. And Rebels hinted at it as well, with Kanan's comment that "everyone has the Force" regarding Sabine.
This is not new.
I have no idea why people keep saying this, but Johnson's film established nothing on this subject that we did not already know.Dee1891 said:
Not in Lucas' films, maybe, but there were examples in the EU.Dee1891 said:
And it is worth noting that as soon as Qui-Gon hears of Anakin's special abilities, he asks who his father was.
And yet for some reason it never appeared in his films.fireproof78 said:
Consider the infamous scene in ROTJ where Leia says that Luke has a power she doesn't understand and could never have.
Now, there are two ways Luke could have responded to this.
"You're wrong, Leia. You can use the Force too, because everyone can."
or
"You're wrong, Leia. You can use the Force too, because you're related to me."
Which one of these made it into the film?
The Exogorth will remember this . . .
You can say that again. Or better yet, let's see what the man himself said about it way back in 1977: -
It still amazes me how some fans have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that not only are "midichlorians exist" and "anyone can use the force" mutually inclusive concepts, but also that Lucas had all of this in mind effectively since the beginning. No recons were made. No fan backlash influenced any such thing. Indeed, Lucas is rather notorious for not giving a flying fig what the fans do and do not complain about, and Filoni is no different.
Wow! Hayden Christensen can act. Who would have thought.
He didn't say anything about midichlorians back in 1977. He hadn't invented the concept yet, or the word itself ( probably because MIDI wasn't a thing until the 1980s ).Reverend said:
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I rather think it's possible that breeding stronger force sensitives (intentionally or otherwise) may be one of the more practical reasons why there's such a strong admonition against that kind of attachment. I can see a scenario that at some point in the past, this actually might have happened, and what it led to was a Jedi and/or Sith aristocracy of sorts, with all the chaos and stagnation that would entail.
Oh for heavens sake! As always, you're getting too hung up on the term itself. The line: "It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different." is part of the original transcript. It's the same basic idea, he just later clarified the concept into something more measurable. Who cares how and when he made up the word? Doesn't change anything about the salient point. Lucas always thought the force was available to anyone willing to put in the time and effort AND there are some beings were born with a natural biological affinity. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
Besides everyone that watched 'Revenge of the Sith' and was paying attention?
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I can definitely see that happening in the past and the restrictions on attachments in terms of strong relationships.
One would think, yes.
Apparently fan assumptions run strongly though.
I might not be the biggest PT fan, but Christensen had some rock-solid moments in AOTC as well, especially the "I slaughtered them like animals." And, yes, ROTS has some good acting as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that would be the only, or even primary reason behind the admonition, but I can see how something like that would reinforce their general attitude over and above the philosophical idea to the point that it became almost a taboo.
Lucas has talked about this many times in the past too. Foregoing attachment doesn't mean foregoing love or companionship, it's about not being possessive. The people you love do not belong to you, so when it comes time for you to be separated (however that may happen), it's important to be able to let go and move on.
Indeed, "letting go" is a concept that appears in Star Wars again and again. It's in one of the first lessons Obi-Wan teaches Luke, and is repeated right at the end. We literally just got an episode of Ahsoka that was about exactly that; letting go of her self-image as warrior, and of her fear of attachment itself. It's all about a need for control of others, which is the way of the dark side.
Somewhere along the way the Jedi lost sight of the underlying meaning and became dogmatic and aloof. It's also part of how they became so cut-off and insular, tied to the will of politicians and bureaucrats instead of the people they're supposed to serve that it blinded them.
As with a lot of things, the key to understanding is context. Even the awkward hammy stuff isn't the result of poor acting or direction; it's a stylistic choice. Lucas consciously leaned into the fact that he's terrible at writing dialogue and made it into a melodrama. I remember reading an interview somewhere with McDiarmid where he talks about filming the Sidious/Windu/Anakin scene, where Lucas kept telling him to go bigger and broader. It's not meant to be a solemn meditation on the morality of a desperate man in love, it's a pantomime. He was painting in bright primary colours to make sure that the eight year olds in the audience got the message, and didn't care if it annoyed out put off the grumpy older fans, because he wasn't making it for them.
Yet though all of that as you say we still get flashes of Hayden's true dramatic chops. What does it for me is something that didn't hit me for years, but the reason some of Hayden's delivery sounds strange at times is because I think he's deliberately emulating James Earl Jones' cadence and emphasis. So when the mask finally goes on, it's a seamless transition. Hayden doesn't get nearly enough credit for the work he put into those movies.
While true and well done it lacks a firm clarity in the text of the films, similar to "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
While I don't agree about all of the performances in the PT, I do strongly agree on this point and given Hayden a lot of credit. I do think he acted as George directed him. I don't think George captured all the ideas he wanted in their performances. I think there are scenes that are amazing performances, and I think there are some that just land poorly. And, for me, unfortunately, it also has the added impact of making my care for the characters diminish. Not that people are not poorly acted in real life (they are!) but that the bigger and broader sometimes feels stilted and artificial.
It is not an assumption that the idea was never suggested anywhere in the original trilogy. It is a fact.
That scene was the only time I felt like I was watching Hera so far.
Given what we've seen Hera do so far on the show (mostly stand around and look at people), I'm really starting to question why they didn't put Vanessa Marshall in the makeup and let her play her own character. There hasn't been any real athletic demand here, and we'd have Hera's true voice and mannerisms. Her facial structure and features are a much closer match as well, probably because the animators used her as something of a model when drawing Hera.
Something about the Clone Wars scenes has been niggling at the back of my mind, so I went back and gave them another look, and now I'm about 80% convinced that my initial instinct was correct and that was indeed Teth in the first shot. Aside from the pink-ish haze and diffuse light; if you look closely at the background silhouettes they appear to be trees similar to those from the Teth landing zone, whereas in the obviously set on Ryloth scene, there's no trees, but plenty of rock spires and a much more orangy/umber pallet with a strong yellow keylight. Observe: -
There are a few logical holes in this of course; there's a single shot in 'Hera's Heros' when Hera & Ezra are riding towards Lessu where the sky is decidedly pink, and there were similar trees to Teth's on Ryloth around Nabat in 'Innocents of Ryloth'. So the colours and background alone is by no means objectively conclusive.
I guess I'm mostly just going with my artistic instincts and inclined to feel that Filoni as an artist is deliberately using the colours to make clear references to these two different settings, over something like a passage of time which would be less relevant to this kind of dream logic setting.
I also rather think that the line "this was one of our first missions" makes a little more sense if it's Teth since it's literally their second mission together, while Ryloth would have been at least their seventh by my count. Plus thematically showing Ahsoka right at the beginning and end of the Clone Wars makes sense too; Teth to Mandalore.
There are a few logical holes in this of course; there's a single shot in 'Hera's Heros' when Hera & Ezra are riding towards Lessu where the sky is decidedly pink, and there were similar trees to Teth's on Ryloth around Nabat in 'Innocents of Ryloth'. So the colours and background alone is by no means objectively conclusive.
I guess I'm mostly just going with my artistic instincts and inclined to feel that Filoni as an artist is deliberately using the colours to make clear references to these two different settings, over something like a passage of time which would be less relevant to this kind of dream logic setting.
I also rather think that the line "this was one of our first missions" makes a little more sense if it's Teth since it's literally their second mission together, while Ryloth would have been at least their seventh by my count. Plus thematically showing Ahsoka right at the beginning and end of the Clone Wars makes sense too; Teth to Mandalore.
That's probably because it's the only time we've seen her do something that we're used to seeing Hera do. That it felt right in that context should tell you something in and of itself.
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100%
Lucas altering his own words from 1977 to try and pass them off in 2007 (in JW Rinzler's 'Making Of' book) is a pure retcon by George.
The original quote by George, from 1977:-
The retconned quote, by George in 2007 (JW Rinzler's 'Making Of' book, page 353):-
JW Rinzler admitted it was a retcon - after fans questioned George's altering the quote in his book - in this article up on the official Star Wars website (from 2013):-
"Please note: While we were preparing the text for The Making of Star Wars, Lucas added a note to this passage about midi-chlorians, bringing his original words in line with his later thoughts and the events of the prequel trilogy."
^ https://www.starwars.com/news/so-what-the-heck-are-midi-chlorians
Quite why people continue to spread the lie that George talked about the term 'midichlorians' in 1977 is beyond me. It is a pure fabrication.
It is far from the only time George has gone back and altered his past quotes, too.
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People are getting hung up on midi-chlorians again, when what was not the point of bringing up the information in the first place. The original quote even proves the point that was being made about people and the Force.
The point has been hammered again and again. The Force is in all living things and is a thing that can be learned. But you have to be open to it. Some people and species are better at it than others, but everyone can. Sabine has a hard time of it, probably because she is Mandalorian. That is a very different path in life, and it will take a lot of effort to unlearn what she has learned as both a Mandalorian and as a Rebel. That she is at least willing to learn is a start. Ahoska has also seemingly been making a mistake in this training. She's teaching Sabine to be a Jedi Warrior, but Sabine is already a warrior. She doesn't need to be trained to fight, she's known that her whole life. Sabine needs the spiritual training of a Jedi, the teaching Ahsoka would have gotten from Yoda, or Sinube. Patience. Learning to listen to the Force. How to connect to it via the things around her.
We also see Hera hearing what Jacen was hearing via the Force. Jacen clearly has talent for the Force at a young age. Like many children that the Jedi would have recruited to eventually become Knights. Yet it also shows that Hera has a connection with the Force. It may not be very much, but when she quiets her mind and listens, she can hear it. It may also be part of her impressive piloting skills, the Force.
The point has been hammered again and again. The Force is in all living things and is a thing that can be learned. But you have to be open to it. Some people and species are better at it than others, but everyone can. Sabine has a hard time of it, probably because she is Mandalorian. That is a very different path in life, and it will take a lot of effort to unlearn what she has learned as both a Mandalorian and as a Rebel. That she is at least willing to learn is a start. Ahoska has also seemingly been making a mistake in this training. She's teaching Sabine to be a Jedi Warrior, but Sabine is already a warrior. She doesn't need to be trained to fight, she's known that her whole life. Sabine needs the spiritual training of a Jedi, the teaching Ahsoka would have gotten from Yoda, or Sinube. Patience. Learning to listen to the Force. How to connect to it via the things around her.
We also see Hera hearing what Jacen was hearing via the Force. Jacen clearly has talent for the Force at a young age. Like many children that the Jedi would have recruited to eventually become Knights. Yet it also shows that Hera has a connection with the Force. It may not be very much, but when she quiets her mind and listens, she can hear it. It may also be part of her impressive piloting skills, the Force.
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