Spoilers Ah, the NEW uniforms...!

[jackoverfull]

By the way, I finally convinced myself to do a rewatch, first time since the series was new. I was surprised to find that most episodes of the first half of the first season were quite ok. Nothing exceptional but ok. Second half of season 1 and early season 2, where I’m now at, were even worse than I remembered!
Also, I didn’t remember finding Archer so unpleasant at the time...I really bang my head at most of the stuff he does and says.

 

[Sci]

I think the ENT design aesthetic was a good compromise between what registered as advanced-looking by early 00s standards and what registered as advanced-looking by 1960s standards -- a good compromise, in other words, between the then-reality and TOS, since they were still trying to keep the TOS design aesthetic in continuity.

 

[jackoverfull]

Didn’t register as advanced to me back then...especially those ubiquitous TV screens registered as “they raided a TV shop and disseminated them trough the set” and I couldn’t help wondering how horrible their usability, and that of many consoles, would be in real life. A far cry from the sensible interfaces seen in TNG and even TOS.

Also never picked up many TOS influences there...Sure there was the communicator, but little else.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, ENT had a weird mix of both looking more advanced than TOS, especially with communicators, while feeling more primitive. I think the biggest thing with ENT was that it tried to hard to be like TNG, and relied upon familiar elements, like phasers, like shield percentages (replaced by hull plating), and not really treat them as new or unfamiliar technology.

 

[Markonian]

I find it amazing - on a worldbuilding scale - how Star Trek has involved into a universe where shows can be set over 1.000 years apart from one another - with ENT on one end and DSC s3 at the other.

Thematically, the transition of Discovery's crew from the ENT-inspired uniforms to the retro-futuristic greys underlines that breadth of worldbuilding.

 

[Sci]

Didn’t register as advanced to me back then...especially those ubiquitous TV screens registered as “they raided a TV shop and disseminated them trough the set” and I couldn’t help wondering how horrible their usability, and that of many consoles, would be in real life. A far cry from the sensible interfaces seen in TNG and even TOS.

I mean, they were basically a combination of touch-screen interfaces a la TNG and real tech, and physical analogue interfaces a la TOS. I don't see how TOS's interfaces were more "sensible."

Also never picked up many TOS influences there...Sure there was the communicator, but little else.

The physical buttons? The sliding level on the transporter? The entire helm console?

 

[jackoverfull]

Yeah, ENT had a weird mix of both looking more advanced than TOS, especially with communicators, while feeling more primitive. I think the biggest thing with ENT was that it tried to hard to be like TNG, and relied upon familiar elements, like phasers, like shield percentages (replaced by hull plating), and not really treat them as new or unfamiliar technology.

very true. A lot of the situations and sequences could have been set after voyager with ease, there was hardly any attempt in showing how less advanced they were and when there was it mostly ended up showing how incredibly stupid the crew was. I mean, nobody questions if it’s really a good idea to bring the dog down to the planet of what they knew already being an easily offended race?

I mean, they were basically a combination of touch-screen interfaces a la TNG and real tech, and physical analogue interfaces a la TOS. I don't see how TOS's interfaces were more "sensible."

try using vertical interfaces for a prolonged period of time. There is a reason if laptops with vertical touch screens never caught on: they are totally possible with today’s technology but horrible to use.
And this goes for discovery and Picard too, with their holo-aerobic computers.
in TOS and TNG any control surface that requires more than the occasional adjustment is flat, just like keyboards today.

The physical buttons? The sliding level on the transporter?

ok, I guess...

The entire helm console?

doesn’t look at lo like tos one to me. If anything it seems a rehash of voyager’s, they even kept the sliding chair!

 

[fireproof78]

very true. A lot of the situations and sequences could have been set after voyager with ease, there was hardly any attempt in showing how less advanced they were and when there was it mostly ended up showing how incredibly stupid the crew was. I mean, nobody questions if it’s really a good idea to bring the dog down to the planet of what they knew already being an easily offended race?

Yeah, that as the biggest frustration of mine. I would have loved for them to highlight that less advanced side, but phasers were phasers, torpedoes were torpedoes, etc.

 

[Sci]

try using vertical interfaces for a prolonged period of time.

I used them all the time when I worked at a cinema. Our point-of-sale systems were vertical at the concession stand, bar, and box office.

There is a reason if laptops with vertical touch screens never caught on: they are totally possible with today’s technology but horrible to use.
And this goes for discovery and Picard too, with their holo-aerobic computers.
in TOS and TNG any control surface that requires more than the occasional adjustment is flat, just like keyboards today.

I mean, I agree that the more horizontal panels were used more often, but I also think you're understating how often TOS and TNG interacted with vertical displays.

In any event, I wasn't thinking of the position of the controls; I was thinking of the physical controls themselves.

 

[jackoverfull]

I used them all the time when I worked at a cinema. Our point-of-sale systems were vertical at the concession stand, bar, and box office.

And you were interacting with them all the time with your hands in the air for hours?

In any event, I wasn't thinking of the position of the controls; I was thinking of the physical controls themselves

well, those are basically buttons, sliders and so on...nothing that innovative.

I mean, I agree that the more horizontal panels were used more often, but I also think you're understating how often TOS and TNG interacted with vertical displays.

On tos I don’t think we ever see anyone interacting with a vertical display on the ship. Reading on them sure, but when they need to input data they either talk or use the horizontal consoles underneath. Perhaps it happens once or twice in engendering but that’s pretty much it.
On TNG it happens more often but it’s still rare, most of the times the same rule apply.

on a tangent, in the cage Spock uses a gesture based input method where he just moves his hands in the air...not bad for a 1965 episode, especially given that idea won’t become popular until minority report in the 2000s!

 

[Sci]

And you were interacting with them all the time with your hands in the air for hours?

We were if there was a busy line! The "7 o'clock set" of shows on Friday and Saturday nights are basically what keep the lights on in the cinema world, and in spite of its name, it usually starts about 6:30 PM and can last until around 8:20 PM depending on how the show schedules have been set up. If it's a busy set, yeah, you can end up interacting with vertical point of sale systems for up to two hours straight.

well, those are basically buttons, sliders and so on...nothing that innovative.

Right -- that's my point, that ENT's set design blends real-world and TOS aesthetics. I wasn't arguing it was innovative, I was arguing it found ways to be derivative of two different aesthetic traditions.

 

[jackoverfull]

We were if there was a busy line! The "7 o'clock set" of shows on Friday and Saturday nights are basically what keep the lights on in the cinema world, and in spite of its name, it usually starts about 6:30 PM and can last until around 8:20 PM depending on how the show schedules have been set up. If it's a busy set, yeah, you can end up interacting with vertical point of sale systems for up to two hours straight.

and you didn’t find something like that uncomfortable?!

Right -- that's my point, that ENT's set design blends real-world and TOS aesthetics.

i really don’t see the TOS aesthetics. I do see mid 90s ones, though...and since it was 2000s that was quite annoying.

 

[Sci]

and you didn’t find something like that uncomfortable?!

*shrugs* I mean, no more so than having to be on our feet for six to eight hours each shift. Service-sector work is physically demanding in general and that didn't register as being all that much worse.

i really don’t see the TOS aesthetics. I do see mid 90s ones, though...and since it was 2000s that was quite annoying.

All the physical, analogue buttons and switches really weren't a 90s thing.

 

[Timo]

very true. A lot of the situations and sequences could have been set after voyager with ease, there was hardly any attempt in showing how less advanced they were and when there was it mostly ended up showing how incredibly stupid the crew was. I mean, nobody questions if it’s really a good idea to bring the dog down to the planet of what they knew already being an easily offended race?

I rather think this is the thing that ENT got right. Technology is technology, and the most backward South American navy in the late 19th century had cutting edge, because this was the only thing that could stay afloat in a war. But the crew of the first-ever Earth deep space explorer would be stupid by definition: they would never have been to a planet that featured an easily offended race. Or a planet full of Klingons. Or a planet with dangerous microorganisms, or plagued by a divine entity or an artificial intelligence. Humdrum things that every regular starfarer would encounter biweekly, but utter news to Earthlings.

The mission of Archer wasn't to be careful out there. It was to raise hell - to make the name "Earth", if not feared and respected, then at least noticed by the interstellar community. He would have had pretty much zero idea of how to proceed, but being extra cautious sure wouldn't cut it. If every database from the mission on had the entry for Earth begin with "Beware of the Dog", all the better!

What I liked about the uniforms was the learning curve. UESF would already know how to dress up for shipboard duties. But the landing party clothing kept evolving throughout the show...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jackoverfull]

*shrugs* I mean, no more so than having to be on our feet for six to eight hours each shift

Worf might sympathize with that. And on that front Enterprise got it right and didn’t have prominent standing stations at least.

All the physical, analogue buttons and switches really weren't a 90s thing.

just look at the dashboard of basically any car designed in the 90s. Or Apple devices from say 1991 to 1996.

 

[mdtauk]

So, on the costuming and make-up First Contact Day session, Gersha Phillips acknowledged their 32nd Century uniforms, blend into the Discovery sets, but worked well on the futuristic Starfleet HQ sets.

Hopefully we may see some set updates (as a continuation of the refit perhaps) come Season 4

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Seemed like the opposite to me. Gray blends in with the so much white of Starfleet HQ but sticks out against the darker Discover sets.

They probably should change the interior lighting color of Discovery sets tho. They gray doesn't go with the bronze look so well.

 

[mdtauk]

Well guess they decided to "fix" the uniforms, instead of the sets.

 

[CorporalClegg]

How long before someone says these were the plan all along?

 

[137th Gebirg]

I really wish they'd make gold the command branch again.