Agents of SHIELD: Season 3 - Discussion (SPOILERS LIKELY)

[CorporalCaptain]

The only issue I had with this episode was that Lance had to run downstairs to bring Bobbi her batons. That was somewhat wonky. I assume the idea was that, in order to preserve the illusion that she was just stepping out for some privacy to make a phone call, she couldn't risk carrying anything except her phone? The payoff was great, though, because the magnetic (?) bracelets were really cool. They came in pretty handy there. The Ward fight at the beginning was also well staged.

So, yeah, no surprise at all that Will is tied into Hydra. The character of the people making human sacrifices and their interest in special artifacts just coincided too closely for a connection not to be plausible. They indeed seem to be SHIELD's arch-nemesis for the foreseeable future as they have been all along.

Regarding the idea that the plant Jemma fought in the pond on "Planet Hell" is related to the HYDRA octopus symbol, remember that nothing had ever gone back to Earth from the planet as far as HYDRA knew. So, it would have had to have been something that HYDRA sent through the portal themselves, perhaps an offering to their Inhuman god, for there to be a connection.

I'm glad they moved things along. Overall, I thought this was a great episode.

Dr. Garner's/Lash's story indeed isn't over either, now that we see that the ATCU's idea of boxing up the Inhumans until they can be cured is a lie. Will he fight from the inside to redeem himself, or will he turn all the way to the dark side?

 

[Marsden]

I don't see why everyone is complaining so much. Hydra was never just a monolithic organization and see no retcon at all that Schmidt founded the modernHydra. Different cells of Hydra barely resemble others, compare Garret! Hydra to Whitehall! Hydra and even to Pierce! Hydra. The are not cookie cutter the same, other than all are clearly antagonists.
Plus, there is precedence of this in the books, Hydra was only resurrected before WW2, although there was Japanese involvement in it, but that could have been a bit of yellow menace attitude because sad to say, Asians were generally cast as villains then, even more than Nazis.

On another subject, Fitz! Wow. And Coulson! If he was a bad guy, he'd be pretty damn dangerous. He's got this nice, everyman attitude, but he's really as Fury as Fury.

This show is so good, I don't even know what else to say.

 

[kitik]

This show is so good, I don't even know what else to say.

This was one of those episodes where they were like "Hey, remember how you've been watching AOS all season? Well this is how it all fits together. Ward and Lash and ATCU and alien planets and Hydra and Inhumans and everything else? This is it. It's all connected."

 

[Star Wolf]

^ Doesn't the idea of Hydra being an ancient organization come from Secret Warriors (a series that this show draws from heavily)?

Hydra, Hydra, and more Hydra. 3 years in and it's still the same ol'. Agent Carter needs to replace this show permanently.

I think you misunderstand what Agents of SHIELD is about. It's always spy stuff and Hydra is their biggest rival. That's clearly not going away.

Granted, I'd like to see AIM.

Only Pepper and Iron Man killed AIM's Steve Jobs, Aldrich Killian. I would think they would need more time to come back than another Hydra head emerging after the casualties were counted,

 

[RJDiogenes]

SHIELD and HYDRA are like CONTROL and KAOS. That's what the show is about.

This was a great episode. Poor Fitz and Gemma. Fitz is really the biggest hero on this show, no doubt about it. Gemma finds herself in an untenable position through no fault of her own. They really are cursed-- by the writers!

I'm very happy that Rosalind turned out to be a good guy. She's a great match for Coulson-- she's got the same style, wit, and charm. Also nice that her unlikable right-hand man seems to be a good guy. I wonder how much of the ATCU is HYDRA. And what will happen now that Malick is outed. Will he go underground, or will they nab him?

And now we know how SHIELD will get back to Planet Hell. First there must be a quest to retrieve the pieces of the Monolith. What idiot decided it would be a good idea to cut it up, anyway?

 

[Christopher]

Only Pepper and Iron Man killed AIM's Steve Jobs, Aldrich Killian. I would think they would need more time to come back than another Hydra head emerging after the casualties were counted,

I still think AIM was a Hydra operation to begin with. After all, Killian tried to assassinate President Ellis just months before Project Insight tried to do the same thing (as part of a much larger wave of assassinations). And they've always been linked in the comics.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Like cousins who beat each other up before saying hello.

Hydra had a plan to kill the President.

"Changing" who the President is, would screw with Hydra's moderate range plans.

If AIM had succeeded, Hydra would would not have been happy.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Like cousins who beat each other up before saying hello.

Hydra had a plan to kill the President.

"Changing" who the President is, would screw with Hydra's moderate range plans.

If AIM had succeeded, Hydra would would not have been happy.

Plus if HYDRA was planing to kill the guy any way in a surprise attack no one would see coming would they really decide to kill the guy months earlier in an over the top pubic spectacle.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Plus if HYDRA was planing to kill the guy any way in a surprise attack no one would see coming would they really decide to kill the guy months earlier in an over the top pubic spectacle.

I know Hydra is evil and all, but... eeewww!

 

[Christopher]

Plus if HYDRA was planing to kill the guy any way in a surprise attack no one would see coming would they really decide to kill the guy months earlier in an over the top pub[l]ic spectacle.

Why not? After all, Ellis was one of thousands of targets of Project Insight, and I'm sure that target list was regularly updated as new threats emerged. It seems to me that if they already had a president in place who was in their back pocket, that would've probably made it easier to achieve the larger Project Insight. For one thing, the assassination of the POTUS would've made it even easier for Pierce to overcome any civil-liberties objections to Insight, because we all know how quick Americans are to surrender their freedoms and privacy when they feel threatened. And having a Hydra-friendly President Rodriguez already in place when Insight launched and killed thousands of other people would've helped them solidify their takeover -- he could've declared a state of emergency and martial law, made an address to the nation about how Insight was necessary for the greater good, etc. Killing off Ellis first would've been better for Insight, not worse. After all, they'd already infiltrated SHIELD and Congress beforehand -- surely having a man already in the Oval Office would've been desirable as well.

 

[The Old Mixer]

So...why would it be a good thing to retroactively connect AIM in IM3 to HYDRA despite a complete lack of direct onscreen evidence for it anywhere...but the reveal that the secret society AoS has been setting up this season was connected to HYDRA is a bad thing?

 

[Christopher]

So...why would it be a good thing to retroactively connect AIM in IM3 to HYDRA despite a complete lack of direct onscreen evidence for it anywhere...but the reveal that the secret society AoS has been setting up this season was connected to HYDRA is a bad thing?

Because the former fits perfectly into what we already know about Hydra -- a 20th- and 21st-century organization that had infiltrated government, defense, and industry -- so it's hardly even a retcon. Because AIM is already connected with Hydra in the comics, so it seems natural that they would be onscreen as well. Because AIM's goals in IM3 dovetail so neatly with Hydra's goals, as I discussed above, making it plausible that Killian's plan was a component of Pierce's larger agenda. Because AIM was behind Extremis, the basis of the technology underlying Hydra's Project Centipede -- and the only technological component of Centipede that has no clear connection to SHIELD. The supersoldier serum would've come from SSR research and the Chitauri tech was collected by SHIELD after the Battle of New York, and radioactive isotopes emitting gamma radiation can be obtained from a variety of sources, but AIM is probably the only place Hydra could've gotten Extremis from, since I doubt Tony and Pepper would've handed it over to SHIELD.

But Hydra being a super-ancient organization is a radical change in our understanding of it. A connection between Hydra and some ancient evil Apocalypse-like Inhuman is not based in the comics as far as I know, and it doesn't seem like it arises organically from anything we knew before. Plus secret ancient societies are an oogy-boogy cliche and it takes Hydra in a much more pulpy direction.

So basically it's Occam's Razor. Hydra being behind AIM is a short and logical step to take; some ancient mystical order being behind Hydra is a rather larger conceptual leap and a rather fundamental redefinition of what Hydra is.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

My personal preference is that Hydra may have used its government connections to fund AIM (since AIM was described as a government think tank) because it would help serve their goals (create chaos, which would encourage people to strengthen their assets buried in SHIELD). However, I don't think they're the same organization.

 

[Christopher]

My personal preference is that Hydra may have used its government connections to fund AIM (since AIM was described as a government think tank) because it would help serve their goals (create chaos, which would encourage people to strengthen their assets buried in SHIELD). However, I don't think they're the same organization.

No, not the same. In the comics, AIM is an offshoot or branch of Hydra, their scientific think tank -- sort of the same thing Hydra was to the Nazis in Captain America: The First Adventure. In my view of the movie, however, I figure Killian was either a member of Hydra or in their pocket.

 

[Guy Gardener]

AIM was a subgroup of Hydra who eventually said "Fuck these assholes" and became their on distinct entity, seceding from Hydra completely... Skip a couple years ...Sunspot, formerly of the New Mutants (X-Men Junior of the 1980s.), now a 20-something billionaire playboy bought out AIM on the stock market and now uses AIM as a tool to help keep the trains running for his own (personal & barely ratified by S.H.I.E.L.D.) Avengers team headquartered on AIM Island.

No, seriously: Sunspot.

####

I'm getting too old for this shit.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ I can dig it. Who's on on his private Avengers team?

Man, I miss the days of the early New Mutants. Before Sinkiewicz, it was a great book.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

^ During Sinkiewicz, it was a great book too.

AIM was a subgroup of Hydra who eventually said "Fuck these assholes" and became their on distinct entity, seceding from Hydra completely... Skip a couple years ...Sunspot, formerly of the New Mutants (X-Men Junior of the 1980s.), now a 20-something billionaire playboy bought out AIM on the stock market and now uses AIM as a tool to help keep the trains running for his own (personal & barely ratified by S.H.I.E.L.D.) Avengers team headquartered on AIM Island.

No, seriously: Sunspot.

####

I'm getting too old for this shit.

There's an issue of New Mutants set in an alternate future (because X-Men) where Sunspot essentially becomes a Magneto like character who is dictator of the world and oppresses all the non-Mutants for the betterment of mutant society. I think owning AIM is in his wheelhouse.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Avengers World.

The book starts off regular with Captain America as team Captain pointing at nogoodnicks for Roberto and Sam Guthrie to smash. AIM is the main villain for the first arc, and eventually Captain America gets distracted by infinity and the Illuminati outing on the Road to Secret Wars. Sam is married with children to an earth farmgirl given the Shi'are Guardswoman utility of the Smasher (Think Nova with more firepower).

Hyperion, (Boy) Thor, Spider-Woman, and Shang Chi... All though there was an overhaul of the roster since Secret Wars. Now we have Hawkeye, Songbird, Wiccan, Hulkling and Squirrel girl in the line up as well.

Here are brief recaps and covers from Marvels official site.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Avengers_World_Vol_1

 

[Guy Gardener]

There's an issue of New Mutants set in an alternate future (because X-Men) where Sunspot essentially becomes a Magneto like character who is dictator of the world and oppresses all the non-Mutants for the betterment of mutant society. I think owning AIM is in his wheelhouse.

New Mutants 47- 49ish (from memory) the new mutants were spewn across crosstimespace. Split into groups of two or three, and then they all had little ironic adventures plying themselves against fractured versions of what they held to be true. Sunspot (and Magma) ruled a Mutant paradise where there were almost no humans, so they hardly oppressed anyone, but because the handful of humans still left over didn't want to be (tagged) pets in a reservation, they were hiding free as sewer dwelling Morlocks and ####. My favorite bit is that the last homo sapiens were protected by a 60 year old Katie Power who had all 4 of alien superpowers of Power Pack to herself.

In Avengers World Sunspot does joke that he's coming off as a villain, but the more resounding point is that with the right leadership, AIM is redeemed as a new force for good on Earth. They've figured out how to save the world and make a profit while doing it, so AIM under Mr DaCosta is actually a better AIM to work for than it ever was with MODOK in charge.

MODOK is of course a Mengele like science assassin working for S.H.I.E.L.D. at the moment (until recently?) in Secret Avengers handing out specialized weapons like Q in a James Bond flick. I think there's a bit where he admits that he's playing nice with the god guys (who are always holding a gun to his head waiting to be double crossed) because he wants to bone Maria Hill, which is another kettle of fish entirely.

 

[DEWLine]

^^ I can dig it. Who's on on his private Avengers team?

As shown in the current New Avengers series?

Sunspot's got the following people on board:

• Songbird
• Hawkeye (Barton), at SHIELD's request. Dugan told them flat-out that Barton was there to watch them for SHIELD. No sneaking around behind Sunspot's back, despite whatever orders Dugan and Barton had to the contrary.
• Wiccan
• Hulkling
• White Tiger (Ava Ayala)
• Power Man (Victor Alvarez)
• Squirrel Girl
• Pod (Aikku Jokinen), a newish character

That's it for now. And now, back to your regularly scheduled AoS chatter.