Agents of SHIELD: Season 3 - Discussion (SPOILERS LIKELY)
- Thread starter Trekker4747
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Ultimately, it's what the show is about: the conflict between SHIELD and Hydra. Complaining about that is like complaining that Harry Potter keeps using the Death Eaters.
So we can watch Hydra infiltrate the SSR while Agent Carter deals with Leviathan and the Maggia Hydra infiltrators?
Cool inside joke having the IT guy from the ATCU talk about his favorite episode of Roseanne with his friend when we first encounter him. That episode (the one where Darlene reads her poem aloud) was written by Joss Whedon.
Or Hunter's cover story being Walter's story from Scorpion
Ah. I figured that was a reference to some real show, but I didn't know what.
I'm still interested. I've always felt that the show has yet to dig deep enough into Hydra's ideology to really understand what motivates Hydra's people, why they believe in what they believe in. I may not like the idea of Hydra-as-ancient-conspiracy, but giving them something they believe in beyond "world domination" does a lot to give Hydra a greater sense of psychological reality. So I don't think it was time to move on from Hydra yet, and I'm glad they've kept Hydra around.
I liked this episode pretty well. Having HYDRA being the ancient group is kind of stupid, but I'm still interested in seeing SHIELD vs HYDRA, so its not a big deal. The ATCU was as corrupt as I thought, although they seem to have made the two recognizable characters from the group good guys, which isn't surprising. Overall this was a pretty enjoyable episode.
I can see that. Thing is, this was all covered in 'Captain America: The First Avenger'... and now it's been retconned. Yeah, they can make it fit, but... was ancient order Hydra really necessary? There are so many other ways they could have gone with this. Meh... whatever I guess. If the story ends up being really good, that's what matters.
Yeah, as I said last week this is probably the least interesting option they could have gone with, but it's not massively improbable.
Not sure how this new bit of information speaks to why the people in Hydra do what they do since it's apparently a very well kept secret, reserved only for the higher levels.
With that in mind I get the sense that Malick is unusual in that he's a modern day Hydra "head" who's also a true believer, whereas the likes of List, Reinhardt/Whitehall, Zola and von Strucker senior were mostly in it for more pragmatic reasons.
Up until this point I never felt that Hydra's obsession for world domination needed to be justified.
I pretty much take it as read that people who want power and control generally do so because they want to change the world. Usually operating from a belief that the current state of affairs is unacceptable and/or the current decision makers and event shapers are either corrupt, incompetent, philosophically wrong headed or lacking a vital trait (i.e. not being the person who wants them gone.)
It's the same basic drive that propels most politicians. The money, greed and corruption generally come later and in fairly short order. It turns reformists into conservative yes-men, freedom fighters into terrorists and idealists into criminal gangs.
Not sure how this new bit of information speaks to why the people in Hydra do what they do since it's apparently a very well kept secret, reserved only for the higher levels.
With that in mind I get the sense that Malick is unusual in that he's a modern day Hydra "head" who's also a true believer, whereas the likes of List, Reinhardt/Whitehall, Zola and von Strucker senior were mostly in it for more pragmatic reasons.
Up until this point I never felt that Hydra's obsession for world domination needed to be justified.
I pretty much take it as read that people who want power and control generally do so because they want to change the world. Usually operating from a belief that the current state of affairs is unacceptable and/or the current decision makers and event shapers are either corrupt, incompetent, philosophically wrong headed or lacking a vital trait (i.e. not being the person who wants them gone.)
It's the same basic drive that propels most politicians. The money, greed and corruption generally come later and in fairly short order. It turns reformists into conservative yes-men, freedom fighters into terrorists and idealists into criminal gangs.
^ Doesn't the idea of Hydra being an ancient organization come from Secret Warriors (a series that this show draws from heavily)?
I think you misunderstand what Agents of SHIELD is about. It's always spy stuff and Hydra is their biggest rival. That's clearly not going away.
Granted, I'd like to see AIM.
I think you misunderstand what Agents of SHIELD is about. It's always spy stuff and Hydra is their biggest rival. That's clearly not going away.
Granted, I'd like to see AIM.
That was a great episode. Just no weaknesses anywhere. Every storyline was compelling and filled with tension. Congrats to DJ Doyle and Jed Whedon.
So, looks like the season is headed for a showdown between Shield's Secret Warriors and Hydra's (more) Secret Warriors. Count me among those who likes the idea of Hydra being this ancient malevolent entity. If you have a GOOD villain, why not ride it? The Hydra stuff, their motives and plans, are seriously working.
Bobbi and Hunter, Ward and Malick, Coulson and Rosalind, (good lord, the mistrust, the intelligent conflict, the chemistry), damn. Even Lincoln found a way to not be boring. The fact that May offered an apology was a major shock to me. I thought she was blaming him for something or other.
Fitz/Simmons. Love the way Fitz is playing it. The nobler he is, the more guilty Simmons feels. She seems to realize it and seems pissed at him for not being an a-hole about the whole thing. All this and he grabs his first kiss too (which she returns) - priceless.
The thought that there may be subsequent episodes better than this one makes me feel all trembly inside.
Can't wait for Dec 1. Can't wait to watch this one again.
So, looks like the season is headed for a showdown between Shield's Secret Warriors and Hydra's (more) Secret Warriors. Count me among those who likes the idea of Hydra being this ancient malevolent entity. If you have a GOOD villain, why not ride it? The Hydra stuff, their motives and plans, are seriously working.
Bobbi and Hunter, Ward and Malick, Coulson and Rosalind, (good lord, the mistrust, the intelligent conflict, the chemistry), damn. Even Lincoln found a way to not be boring. The fact that May offered an apology was a major shock to me. I thought she was blaming him for something or other.
Fitz/Simmons. Love the way Fitz is playing it. The nobler he is, the more guilty Simmons feels. She seems to realize it and seems pissed at him for not being an a-hole about the whole thing. All this and he grabs his first kiss too (which she returns) - priceless.
The thought that there may be subsequent episodes better than this one makes me feel all trembly inside.
Can't wait for Dec 1. Can't wait to watch this one again.
Nothing much to add.. this was an outstanding episode that moved everything forward at a rapid pace.
I especially liked Fitz in this one.. i liked him from the start and slowly he became a favorite of mine but in this one he finally manages to get himself out of the way and act for once and it worked brillliantly.
Thing is.. this doesn't feel like some lame CW style young adults love triangle. Simmons is really caught between a rock and hard place because she moved on thinking she'll never be able to return and when she did she was presented with an impossible scenario. I am really curious how this will end and i hope they will not handwave it away because Fitz is a main character and astronaut boy isn't.
Another highlight was Coulson and Ros in the holding cell.. damn Phil, he's as cold and calculating as Nick Fury ever was and it's glorious
Perfectly written and perfectly acted.
Speaking of Fitz, I was also at least half-right regarding the beat where Fitz had been covertly looking at files about Will...he confirmed that he was trying to dig up dirt, but he couldn't find anything.
Apparently we're going with the conceit that there's no age discrepancy for the characters to notice.
Apparently we're going with the conceit that there's no age discrepancy for the characters to notice.
Yeah, really enjoyable episode. Fitz was great, and Simmons even kissed him back! Coulson was dropping some real sneaky shit on Rosalind and the whole ATCU. So basically the ATCU got infiltrated by Hydra in the exact same way Shield did. Well, not exact same, but similar enough outcome.
I'll also agree that it was a pleasant surprise to see her number two guy help out Hunter and Bobbi at the end there. Though he didn't seem to escape with them. Go figure. I guess the angle that he and Rosalind will want Malick to believe is that Shield infiltrated all on their own and escaped all on their own?
Also, nice to hear onscreen confirmation that this is indeed the same guy who was on the World Security Council in the Avengers movie.
So it seems like Lincoln is pretty much apart of Shield now. And that's that. It also seems like Hydra's Inhumans will pose quite a threat, and thus Daisy's team is going to have to finally get up and running. Considering it seems like we've met a grand total of zero potential new members since Joey in the season premiere, I certainly hope ginger ninja/Madrox Girl will join the team.
So, what's up with the ATCU going forward? Thier whole purpose seems to be to "store" Inhumans, and try to cure them. That obviously has been a lie, so will the ATCU even exist going forward, or will the thing be disbanded?
I'll also agree that it was a pleasant surprise to see her number two guy help out Hunter and Bobbi at the end there. Though he didn't seem to escape with them. Go figure. I guess the angle that he and Rosalind will want Malick to believe is that Shield infiltrated all on their own and escaped all on their own?
Also, nice to hear onscreen confirmation that this is indeed the same guy who was on the World Security Council in the Avengers movie.
So it seems like Lincoln is pretty much apart of Shield now. And that's that. It also seems like Hydra's Inhumans will pose quite a threat, and thus Daisy's team is going to have to finally get up and running. Considering it seems like we've met a grand total of zero potential new members since Joey in the season premiere, I certainly hope ginger ninja/Madrox Girl will join the team.
So, what's up with the ATCU going forward? Thier whole purpose seems to be to "store" Inhumans, and try to cure them. That obviously has been a lie, so will the ATCU even exist going forward, or will the thing be disbanded?
It sounds more like Malick convinced President Ellis to form the ATCU and had an ulterior motive behind it the whole time. So it's not the same as SHIELD/Hydra. The ATCU was a Hydra plot the whole time, but only some of its members (not including Rosalyn and her sidekick whose name I've forgotten again) were aware of that.
I think of him as Dandy Johnny Shea, but that's Hell on Wheels.
