Agents of SHIELD: Season 3 - Discussion (SPOILERS LIKELY)

[Sci]

Edited:

And besides Vice President Rodriguez and Senator Stern, Senator Cherryh went down for his ties to Wilson Fisk in over in Daredevil. That's a lot of public political downfalls in a very short amount of time, and all from separate sources of corruption.

Which makes me wonder why the Hell Tony Stark is going to think these guys should be in charge of superheroes.

Well, I think the idea is that Tony realized that his own unaccountable power to create Ultron in Avengers: Age of Ultron led to multiple deaths, the destruction of Novi Grad, and nearly caused the extinction of the human race. So he's trying to learn from his own arrogance and to make vast power like his and the Avengers' accountable to the democratic state. After all, why should someone be able to exercise executive authority without actually answering to anyone else?

And besides Vice President Rodriguez and Senator Stern, Senator Cherryh went down for his ties to Wilson Fisk in over in Daredevil. That's a lot of public political downfalls in a very short amount of time, and all from separate sources of corruption.

I'm not convinced they were all separate. Given that the VP was working with Killian and AIM, that AIM in the comics is a Hydra offshoot, and that the President was again targeted by Project Insight in TWS, I suspect that Killian was either knowingly or unknowingly working for Hydra when he colluded with the VP.

Certainly possible. (I like anything that makes Hydra seem bigger and more powerful and scarier. I like "the Death Eaters have taken over!"-type stories.)

The United States government has a very definite problem with active treason within its upper ranks in the MCU. And poor President Ellis has now been the victim of two nearly-successful coup attempts in less than 16 months. I'd be pretty disturbed if I were an MCU U.S. citizen.

And no, I don't think Hydra putting the US President on a list of several million people who would be an impediment to Hydra really constitutes a link between them and AIM.

It needn't be, but it could be. President Ellis was not just any other target -- he was actively the person Hydra wished to replace as dominant leader of the planet.

I for one am not convinced that the Hydra faction we saw in Ant-Man answers to Grant Ward. The Hydra faction from Ant-Man was led by Mitchel Carson, who was described as the "former head of defense at SHIELD" in 1989. So we're talking about someone who is apparently very high up at SHIELD, presumably just below the level of Director. He appeared to be roughly co-equal in rank to Peggy Carter and Howard Stark in '89, and I just don't find it plausible that somebody that high up in SHIELD or government would answer to a mid-level Hydra field agent like Ward.

On top of that, I just find it really hard to believe that a cabal that had become as powerful and well-ensconced as Hydra -- infiltrating SHIELD from top to bottom, having their leader in the United States Cabinet (Alexander Pierce), putting another of their followers in the U.S. Senate (Senator Sterns), having followers in what I took to be the British House of Lords (the Baroness), controlling large corporations such as Echidna Capital Management (Dr. List), controlling what I took to be important Wall Street banks ("the Banker") and important Middle East-based oil firms ("the Sheikh")... Hydra just seems too large and powerful for me to buy that it's been reduced to a couple of Hell's Angels wannabes in a bar.

So sign me up as one of the folks who thinks Ward has taken over one faction of Hydra, and that the faction we saw in Ant-Man is probably wealthier and more powerful (and covertly controls some large corporation or other upper-class organization), and that the two factions may not be in contact with one-another.

I'm still of the opinion that the HYDRA with better resources is the part that went into hiding when their leaders started dropping like flies to strike from the shadows at a later date (like say when their enemies are beating the crap out of each other over differences about legislation and how it affects them) and Ward just got the cast offs they left behind.

They probably just let Ward and his group think their whats left so everyone thinks HYDRA is a broken remnant thats incapable of being a major threat to get everyone off the more capable group's backs until they take they're ready to strike.

I like this interpretation. Although that would mean that the wealthy Hydra faction (almost?) tipped its hand in revealing that it still exists when it tried to acquire the Pym Particles.

 

[Marsden]

Not disagreeing, but what would stop someone from forming a mob or gang and then saying "We're HYDRA!" really?

So I'm sure the more nihilistic nutjobs running around sowing chaos in HYDRA's name, even if not properly part of said organization would probably still serve their overall purpose.

I really don't think Garret or Whitehall had anything to do with each other.

 

[Christopher]

^Not to mention that Hydra was probably so compartmentalized and infiltrated so many different groups over the decades that there are probably a bunch of otherwise unrelated groups that feel some allegiance to Hydra and have taken it upon themselves to carry on the organization's legacy -- in the same way that Coulson's group and Gonzales's group both independently saw themselves as the true heirs of SHIELD.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Description of 3.02, "Purpose in the Machine" can be found here.

It features the return of ...

Spoiler: Guest Star

...Peter MacNichol's Asgardian character Professor Elliot Randolph, as he attempts to help figure out the gadget that ate Simmons.

Cool! One of the more interesting guest stars from the first two seasons.

 

[Sci]

Not disagreeing, but what would stop someone from forming a mob or gang and then saying "We're HYDRA!" really?

Well, that's basically what I feel like Ward did.

I really don't think Garret or Whitehall had anything to do with each other.

I think Garret's faction was definitely going rogue from the rest of Hydra's command structure, yeah.

^Not to mention that Hydra was probably so compartmentalized and infiltrated so many different groups over the decades that there are probably a bunch of otherwise unrelated groups that feel some allegiance to Hydra and have taken it upon themselves to carry on the organization's legacy -- in the same way that Coulson's group and Gonzales's group both independently saw themselves as the true heirs of SHIELD.

Yeah. Or, for that matter, the way there are multiple, mostly autonomous al-Qaeda and Ku Klux Klan offshots in real life.

 

[Reverend]

It's worth keeping in mind that Hydra's own motto is "cut off one head, two more shall take it's place."
This combined with the compartmentalised cell organization they had while existing within SHIELD means that yes, we should fully expect to see multiple, largely autonomous Hydras of varying threat capability knocking around the MCU for a while to come yet. At least until someone with enough power and influence is able to rally the disparate faction back into a cohesive structure. But I wouldn't count on them doing that for a while yet.

It should be obvious why we see Ward only able to scrap together a bunch of low-life, neo-Nazi types while the ex head of SHIELD defence seems to have some significant financial resources. Ward was never much more than an asset for Garret. He was never a believer, he was a weapon, an attack dog. and with most of the middle management types gone, the number of people who even know who he is, much less trust him enough to come out of hiding is going to be practically nil.

That other guy however apparently had decades to build up contacts, connections and resources of his own.

 

[Christopher]

The first few minutes of the season premiere are now online:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/a...opening-scene-features-extreme-inhuman-action

Spoiler: preview

They have a new Bus! And it's sort of a giant Quinjet with a touch of Helicarrier.

The flying elevator feels like something right out of the Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD comic book, by way of Roald Dahl.

 

[Q2UnME]

^THAT was pretty cool ....

 

[Turtletrekker]

Sweet! Can't wait!

 

[JD]

That was awesome! I loved Daisy's (I had to erase Skye there and change it), entrance. The new Bus is very cool looking. I wonder how different the interior will be?

 

[Trekker4747]

Got to say, that four-minute intro has me hooked. Loved Skye (yeah, I'm still calling her that! I like that name more than the vastly more generic "Daisy") look!

 

[Christopher]

Hmm... Daisies are small flowers only found here and there at certain times of year, while the sky is everywhere, every moment, always. So which one is more generic?

 

[Mage]

Yup, I'm hooked already.

Daisy looks wicked, Mack is cool as feck, the new Bus is something I need in my life on a daily basis.... Bring it on!!

 

[Trekker4747]

Hmm... Daisies are small flowers only found here and there at certain times of year, while the sky is everywhere, every moment, always. So which one is more generic?

The sky is mesmerizing and full of all of the wonders of the universe beyond all comprehension. Daisies are little flowers that make me sneeze.

 

[Reverend]

I actually like how ordinary her name sounds. The same way I like how an urbane genius covered in blue fur and given to hang upside-down from the ceiling is named "Hank".
Making at least some of their characters feel like "real" people (in their off hours at least) has always been a hallmark of Marvel and something DC could never quite pull off so well.

For example: -
"Peter struggles to make ends meet so he has to work part time to pay for tuition."
"Frank is a destitute veteran who has been living out the back of a van ever since he lost his wife and kid."
"Matthew's father literally worked himself to death to put him through school so he could escape the slums."

These all sound like real people with real people problems and real people names. Also, as a bonus if Sif ever shows up again, we may get to hear her call Daisy "Son of John" and suddenly get a very confused look on her face.


Anyway, as for the footage: anyone have a clue if this guy might be a known character? Do metal melting powers sound familiar? Or is he just be a ferrokinetic like Magneto, but just wildly out of control?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Iron Man has an old foe called the Melter, but his powers came from tech...and he was a villain.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I was wondering why his power didn't melt the elevator in mid-flight.

 

[The Old Mixer]

From the honeycomb pattern inside, it looks like they were doing the vibranium cell thing.

 

[Reverend]

^That was my assumption. Vibranium is pretty much the "it does whatever we need it to do" magical substance of the MCU.

I do wonder if after the incident with Ultron, that stuff as suddenly become a lot less rare, though no less sought after. After all, didn't a massive shaft of the stuff come hurtling down out of the sky after the city island thing blew up?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It could also have just been lined with literally anything not metal. Didn't have to be vibranium, it could have been plastic.