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Spoilers Agatha All Along discussion and spoilers.

I think people's biggest problem was the same problem many had with nuBSG. They were expecting a more grounded resolution/explanation for the events that had been happening in the series than what we received.

NO SPOILERS== For younger audiences out there who have not seen Lost (or BSG for that matter), those are series meant for binge watching.
 
theenglish said:
I think people's biggest problem was the same problem many had with nuBSG. They were expecting a more grounded resolution/explanation for the events that had been happening in the series than what we received.
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What's ironic about BSG is that the show was telling us all along that there was supernatural stuff happening -- prophecies that came true, talk of destiny, mysterious figures that called themselves angels of God -- but the viewers (myself included) didn't believe it and tried to rationalize it as having some secular explanation, because we weren't used seeing magical realism in the context of space opera. So when the finale confirmed that all the mystical and supernatural things were actually true, many people thought it was a retcon, even though the show had literally been telling us all along that these things were supernatural. For my part, my reaction was "Ohhhh! I've been looking at it all wrong, it actually makes so much more sense if it was never supposed to be rationally explainable in the first place."

I don't think the same goes for Lost, though. I gave up on it after a couple of seasons, but from what I've read about it, I think there was a lot of readjustment of the story plans as writing staffers came and went.
 
Christopher said:
What's ironic about BSG is that the show was telling us all along that there was supernatural stuff happening -- prophecies that came true, talk of destiny, mysterious figures that called themselves angels of God -- but the viewers (myself included) didn't believe it and tried to rationalize it as having some secular explanation, because we weren't used seeing magical realism in the context of space opera. So when the finale confirmed that all the mystical and supernatural things were actually true, many people thought it was a retcon, even though the show had literally been telling us all along that these things were supernatural. For my part, my reaction was "Ohhhh! I've been looking at it all wrong, it actually makes so much more sense if it was never supposed to be rationally explainable in the first place."

I don't think the same goes for Lost, though. I gave up on it after a couple of seasons, but from what I've read about it, I think there was a lot of readjustment of the story plans as writing staffers came and went.
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There was a lot of adjustment to the story for various reasons and there was no clear idea of the workings of the island in the beginning--however, I think the science-fantasy aspect was always meant to be there.

I had exactly the same reaction with the BSG finale. It ended and I didn't know what to take from it; I remember thinking about it for hours afterward and then coming to the realization that I really loved it.

FWIW, I also think the Seinfeld finale was brilliant, but the Cheers finale was disappointing. Probably the opposite of the majority opinion in both cases.
 
theenglish said:
I had exactly the same reaction with the BSG finale. It ended and I didn't know what to take from it; I remember thinking about it for hours afterward and then coming to the realization that I really loved it.
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Well, I wouldn't say I loved it, but I realized I'd been missing the point all along by expecting there to be a rational explanation for the angels and prophecies and stuff. Once I reoriented my perspective to accept that the show had been magic-realist space fantasy from the start, that the supernatural stuff really was supernatural and had always overtly been, it held together better.

And it's weird that I was so slow to accept that, given that the original series was also largely fantasy with a religious element (insofar as it could get away with it given network censorship, so that it featured angels and the Devil but handwaved them as aliens sufficiently advanced to be indistinguishable from divinities).
 
Christopher said:
What's ironic about BSG is that the show was telling us all along that there was supernatural stuff happening -- prophecies that came true, talk of destiny, mysterious figures that called themselves angels of God -- but the viewers (myself included) didn't believe it and tried to rationalize it as having some secular explanation, because we weren't used seeing magical realism in the context of space opera. So when the finale confirmed that all the mystical and supernatural things were actually true, many people thought it was a retcon, even though the show had literally been telling us all along that these things were supernatural. For my part, my reaction was "Ohhhh! I've been looking at it all wrong, it actually makes so much more sense if it was never supposed to be rationally explainable in the first place."

I don't think the same goes for Lost, though. I gave up on it after a couple of seasons, but from what I've read about it, I think there was a lot of readjustment of the story plans as writing staffers came and went.
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I think some of the cast changes had a big impact too, they seemed to be setting up Walt to a big part of what was going on, and I think losing him so early probably caused a pretty big shift in the storyline.
 
JD said:
I think some of the cast changes had a big impact too, they seemed to be setting up Walt to a big part of what was going on, and I think losing him so early probably caused a pretty big shift in the storyline.
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I'm not sure "losing" is the right word there. Veterans of the Lost writers' room have revealed that the people in charge were rather racist and tended to marginalize or write out the characters of color. The book Burn It Down by Maureen Ryan has a whole chapter on the toxic conditions of the show's writers' room, and IIRC, Damon Lindelof has admitted to "making mistakes" and claimed to be repentant, while Carlton Cuse has denied wrongdoing.
 
Oh, all the stories I'd heard at the time said that he was homesick and wanted to leave Hawaii, but I guess they might have said that to cover up that stuff.
 
Not sure about any of that stuff but Walt being a growing kid while the timeline of show moved slowly was always going to be a issue. He could have been used more though when they started doing flash forwards.
 
Yeah, he did make a couple of guest appearances later on, and you could tell they were trying to use camera angles and things like that to hide how much he'd aged since he was on before.
 
I did like how in the Bonus features we find out that Hurley and Ben have come back and are getting him out of the mental hospital and want to bring him back to the Island to help his dad who is sort of trapped their as a ghost or something like that.
 
Yeah, that was pretty great. Definitely sad to see Lilia go, but it was interesting to get to see things from her perspective. The time jumps were a little jarring at first, but it all came together well in the end.
It was nice to finally get the Rio reveal, and I'm curious exactly how her real identity will come into play in the rest of the story.
 
So Agatha was the Wicked Witch of the West, Teen was Maleficent, Jennifer was the Queen/Witch from Snow White. But who was Lilia meant to be?

Also, next week is the final two episodes.
 
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I've loved this whole season (probably more than most here) but this was by far the best episode of the season. This show's wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey episode of a character unstuck in time (not unlike a certain Desmond Hume...). I'm really looking forward to rewatching the season and seeing how well all of Lilia's "gaps" line up with what we saw at the time. Some of them certainly stood out at the time, but others less so, so I'm curious to see how it all fits together.

But not only we did we get such a wonderful character piece for Lilia, we also got some big revelations. Rio is indeed Death (and Agatha always knew that). Billy is going through an understandable identity crisis (and damn, Joe Locke so gorgeous as Maleficent). And best of all, the show's writers knows exactly who their audience are with their spot-on trolling about whether Wanda is actually dead or not.

The end of the road is near and right in time for Halloween. I cannot wait. :D

Tuskin38 said:
So Agatha was the Wicked Witch of the West, Teen was Maleficent, Jennifer was the Queen/Witch from Snow White. But who was Lilia meant to be?

Also, next week is the final two episodes.
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JD said:
I think she was supposed to be Glinda.
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The jokes about who they were were costumed as were hysterical, from Jen loathing her persona to Agatha trying to take credit for inspiring the Wicked Witch of the West.
 
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Yeah, that was pretty good. And having Agatha as The Wicked Witch and Lila as Glinda feels especially appropriate since we're a couple weeks away from the release of the first Wicked movie. I'm assuming that was just a coincidence though, because I can't imagine Disney purposefully doing something to promote a Universal movies.
 
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