@Thomas Eugene, if I could give you a individual "like" on each one of your 10 points I would. 
Actually, I quite like . . . (Voyager edition)
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@Thomas Eugene agreed with most of your points, well said.
I will say that I do like the late DS9 uniforms with the gray shoulders. Personally I did always wonder why they didn't switch to those after Message in a Bottle, but I didn't really mind that they didn't.
As for the characters, I have always thought that of all the series Voyager had the most interesting characters and the most developed (most of them anyway). I do like all the Trek series a lot but the characters on TNG and DS9 never found a place in my heart like the Voyager characters did.
I will say that I do like the late DS9 uniforms with the gray shoulders. Personally I did always wonder why they didn't switch to those after Message in a Bottle, but I didn't really mind that they didn't.
As for the characters, I have always thought that of all the series Voyager had the most interesting characters and the most developed (most of them anyway). I do like all the Trek series a lot but the characters on TNG and DS9 never found a place in my heart like the Voyager characters did.
I liked that the ship didn't often look beat up and heavily damaged. I can make the assumption that after any fire fight they made repairs. I don't need screen time taken up showing someone painting the hull.
I liked that they still used the holodeck and the holodeck episodes. If I was stuck on a potentially 70 year journey I would really want some recreation. I think people would go crazy without some kind of escape.
I liked that they weren't constantly talking about being low on supplies. They addressed it several times but it didn't need to be said every episode. I can make the assumption that they stopped at some M class planets and harvested some veggies. I don't need screen time taken up by showing someone picking plants.
I liked that they still used the holodeck and the holodeck episodes. If I was stuck on a potentially 70 year journey I would really want some recreation. I think people would go crazy without some kind of escape.
I liked that they weren't constantly talking about being low on supplies. They addressed it several times but it didn't need to be said every episode. I can make the assumption that they stopped at some M class planets and harvested some veggies. I don't need screen time taken up by showing someone picking plants.
@Thomas Eugene, if I could give you a individual "like" on each one of your 10 points I would.
Thanks to both of you. I'm glad you liked my points.
Like I've sometimes said on this forum ... the only problem with Star Trek Voyager is that it lasted for 7 seasons ... instead of 25 ...
As for other Star Trek shows, I don't really like them. DS9 is undoubtedly the second best (but way behind VOY in my book). My second favourite show would be StarGate SG-1 for quite a few reasons but again, it doesn't come anywhere near Voyager.
I'm sorry to say but TNG bores me to death (Picard is unbearable ...) and whoever thought out the idea of ENT must have been on cocaine ... I gave it up after the first few eps of season 2.
I don't know the original series but the odd episode I've seen was tolerable. The stories were pretty interesting (e.g. the one about Spock's pon-farr)... but the film-making technique of the 1960s ... takes a bit of getting used to - to say the least.
So yes ... Star Trek Voyager totally rocks ... and occasionally I like watching DS9 as well when I'm in the mood and when Mister Sisko is not shouting ...
which is rare ... [/QUOTE]
This. So much this. I assume they got supplies on all those trading missions. I didn't need to see Janeway and Neelix haggling with aliens over prices or Janeway and Chakotay arguing over whether or not giving these aliens some random piece of tech in exchange for whatever would be breaking the Prime Directive.
I sort of agree and disagree. I do think these characters had stronger bonds to each other than is typical on a show, but there were character pairings (Neelix-Tuvok) or groups (Tom-B'Elanna-Harry) that were not only more prominent but more logical. And ironically, I think that's why they all seemed so close. In The Next Generation, they're really pushing Roddenberry's idea of humans moving beyond social conflict, with the unintended result that the humans have moved beyond social preference, and thus beyond friendship. Everybody loves everybody in this bland enlightened way, which just means that nobody really likes anybody for a good, particular reason. This issue ties back to the presence of the Maquis on Voyager and the frequent fan complaint that the show was untrue to its premise by not showing too much hostility between Starfleet and Maquis. My theory has always been that the Maquis were introduced to the premise to provide the kind of dramatically interesting social tension that Gene's "edict" forbade among a strictly Starfleet crew; but that the idea of Maquis hostility wasn't used much because the writers found subtler, more nuanced ways of adding tension and variety to the crew's social interactions, ways based on friendship and personality rather than group loyalty.
On the other hand, while I like Deep Space Nine and think the character interactions were handled better than on The Next Generation, the characters on that show do have a tendency to stay in their little social silos. There are some characters that basically never interact with others or only superficially. And that doesn't happen on Voyager. So I think there's a balance to be struck between developing particular friendships and maintaining a sense of group camaraderie.
Yes to this. You contrasted Voyager's humor to that of sitcoms. I think there's a similar contrast to be made with how the other Generation-era shows handled comedy. They'd largely reserve it for the outright comedic episodes with the Ferengi or the Q or Troi's mum or whatever. The result was too many episodes, whether comedic or serious, that came off monotone. Voyager knew how to be clever and fun even when it wasn't desperately trying to be funny.
Again, I agree and disagree. I hate the black and gray of the Deep Space Nine uniforms, but even the Voyager ones are too drab for me. In a show that was all around less drab and colorless than The Next Generation, the one thing they decided to make more drab was the uniforms. One of the things I love best about the new Kelvinverse movies is the return to the bright, colorful look of the original Star Trek, not exclusively but especially in terms of the uniforms. And gold is back to command, as it ought to be (and as it is in my 25th-century Star Trek fan fiction).
I have always wondered if the character chemistry was any kind of reflection on the actor chemistry. Over the years at many conventions I have heard that behind the scenes the TNG cast were close friends, had fun on set and remail very close friends to this day. On Voyager they were also very friendly, played jokes on each other and still mainain friendships. However on DS9 every actor has said that the tone was always very quiet and serious on set and they regarded each other as coworkers, not as friends (except Nana Visitor and Alexander Sidig of course)
I've seen a couple of Voyager convention panels and a couple of Next Generation ones. What I've loved about the Voyager ones is that the actors seem to have that same fun chemistry of the crew from the show. You have Mulgrew mothering everybody, asking to be caught up on their lives; Wang and Philips trying to be everyone's friend; Dawson showing surprisingly likable disgust for silly things; Beltran and Russ sitting back coolly and making occasional sardonic comments, especially Russ; and McNeil sort of breaking the ice between everybody with goofy humor. At one of the panels I saw, Picardo, who wasn't scheduled to appear, crashed it from the audience queue for questions and gave a long speech about how much the show and crew mean to him--such an EMH thing to do. Unfortunately, Ryan was not a part of either panel I saw.
By contrast, at the Next Generation panels, everyone sat rather sedately in their seats, except Spiner and Sirtis, who cracked a lot of jokes, but not in a way that brought the other panelists in. Everyone was polite. Everyone attested to how good of friends they are, without actually demonstrating much in the way of friendship. It was like the show.
Now maybe both "crews" just know how to play the roles their audiences have come to expect. And maybe it has something to do with getting the whole group or a large group together; because Sirtis and Dorn came across as good enough friends when I saw them on a panel, just the two of them. And I also don't rule out a sort of perceptual bias, that I saw the actors the way I see their shows; but it was still interesting to me to see them that way.
By contrast, at the Next Generation panels, everyone sat rather sedately in their seats, except Spiner and Sirtis, who cracked a lot of jokes, but not in a way that brought the other panelists in. Everyone was polite. Everyone attested to how good of friends they are, without actually demonstrating much in the way of friendship. It was like the show.
Now maybe both "crews" just know how to play the roles their audiences have come to expect. And maybe it has something to do with getting the whole group or a large group together; because Sirtis and Dorn came across as good enough friends when I saw them on a panel, just the two of them. And I also don't rule out a sort of perceptual bias, that I saw the actors the way I see their shows; but it was still interesting to me to see them that way.
Actually I quite like all of the Borg episodes. I know a common criticism is that they were "weakened" but I could not disagree more. I think they were weaker in TNG. Voyager, to me, made them scarier.
There is a long video of Voyager panel from the 2015 Vegas con in which the WHOLE cast was present. It's on youtube, I highly recommend watching it.
The times I've seen the TNG cast they all seemed to be having fun and cracking jokes. Several times I've seen Sir Patrick at a con and the best thing is when Brent Spiner sneaks into the question line and taunts Patrick. I also love when Marina calls him "Old Baldy", and when she calls Michael Dorn, "Dorny"
Neither of the Next Generation panels I saw included Stewart, which I'm sure makes a difference. Spiner did do some pretty funny impressions of him at one of the panels I saw.
I do need to watch the 2015 Voyager panel if it's available. Unfortunately, I missed that year in favor of an extra day of family vacation at Lake Tahoe, something I still maintain was worth the trade, though there was some disagreement among a couple of the other Trekkies in my family.
it's on youtube, there are a few versions, watch the one that is around 45 minutes long. that is pretty much the whole panel
Something I'd like to put out there. I've noticed some rather negative vibes about Harry's character in other threads and on other web-sites. I guess some people think his character is bland, no character growth, unnecessary, etc.
But I think something that is positive about Harry is he is someone who makes friends with the ones like Tom who started out not having friends. And Harry's a loyal friend.
But I think something that is positive about Harry is he is someone who makes friends with the ones like Tom who started out not having friends. And Harry's a loyal friend.
I once (and for the last time in my life) went to a convention that made me realize conventions were not my world. Nevertheless, I was surprised at how funny Picard was. On his show he is just ... you know ... anal ... someone who has happened to swallow Starfleet regulation books by the dozen. But in real life, Patrick Stewart was funny - I was really pleasantly surprised. He even sang for us.
I also remember reading somewhere on the Internet that Michael Dorn said TNG was party time basically all the time whereas DS9 was more like going to church. That was also a bit surprising. I know (=I have read it somewhere, it might just be gossip) that Nana Visitor's conspicuously higher than anyone else's salary caused a lot of friction on DS9 - as far as I know, Jadzia's leaving the show also had something to do with that. But whether the actors had any other reason not to be particularly friendly with each other is anyone's guess ... I guess. Although having seen some DS9 panels on YouTube, Avery Brooks does make the impression he is not hundred per cent good news (he looks and speaks like he is on drugs or something most of the time) so that might also have been a source of tension among the actors. I'm conjecturing, of course.
As for Voyager, even though there's nothing like it and even though today the actors are extremely friendly to each other (I do have the impression there is genuine love among them with regular VOYBOY dinners and stuff), it is also rumoured that the shooting of VOY was fraught with friction, due to Garrett Wang's antisocial (for lack of a better word) behaviour during the first half and then Jeri Ryan's being constantly late for shooting in later seasons.
But in spite of that, they really seem like a big family, which actually might have been the case towards the end of the show already. By today they must have realized that the family atmosphere their show was about also works in real life. Maybe the show itself helped them realize this.
I also remember reading somewhere on the Internet that Michael Dorn said TNG was party time basically all the time whereas DS9 was more like going to church. That was also a bit surprising. I know (=I have read it somewhere, it might just be gossip) that Nana Visitor's conspicuously higher than anyone else's salary caused a lot of friction on DS9 - as far as I know, Jadzia's leaving the show also had something to do with that. But whether the actors had any other reason not to be particularly friendly with each other is anyone's guess ... I guess. Although having seen some DS9 panels on YouTube, Avery Brooks does make the impression he is not hundred per cent good news (he looks and speaks like he is on drugs or something most of the time) so that might also have been a source of tension among the actors. I'm conjecturing, of course.
As for Voyager, even though there's nothing like it and even though today the actors are extremely friendly to each other (I do have the impression there is genuine love among them with regular VOYBOY dinners and stuff), it is also rumoured that the shooting of VOY was fraught with friction, due to Garrett Wang's antisocial (for lack of a better word) behaviour during the first half and then Jeri Ryan's being constantly late for shooting in later seasons.
But in spite of that, they really seem like a big family, which actually might have been the case towards the end of the show already. By today they must have realized that the family atmosphere their show was about also works in real life. Maybe the show itself helped them realize this.
I never know whether the guests at conventions come across to me positively and/or like their characters because a) it's real, b) it's what I want to see, or c) they know it's what fans like me want to see and act accordingly. But as I've said several times on other threads, I don't let my perspective on the actors or their situations get defined by negative internet rumors and the like, not because I think all the rumors are untrue, but because I think none of the rumors tell the whole story of who these people are and what working with them is like.
Thanks!
So DS9 co stars aren't close really?
So it would seem. Although of course, sifting through rumour and fact is a difficult thing.
But people on the DS9 fora might know more about that ...
- Harry Kim was one of the best characters.
-I like VOYAGER'S "reset button". I just want to be entertained for an hour; ongoing stories are often overrated & laborous on SF tv;
-Neelix was a good character. C'mon- when he left, and Tuvok did a foot dance? How could you hate Neelix.
-I like that VOYAGER didn't look all battle damaged as the series went on. That was a great-looking ship and it was treated respectfully.
-I like that the producers didn't have ongoing friction between the Maqui (sp?) and the Federation people. That negative energy is for DS9. It wouldn't have helped VOYAGER. You root for the crew to get home. It was compelling. Who wants to root for a judgemental, petty infighting crew? Not me.
(As to the cast debate: I think chemistry off-screen absolutely translates onscreen. I didn't buy any of the relationships on DS9- just because it's in the script-doesn't make it real. You can feel the distance on DS9. Conversely, TOS- you can absolutely feel the comradeship between Shatner-Nimoy-Kelley, right?)
-I like VOYAGER'S "reset button". I just want to be entertained for an hour; ongoing stories are often overrated & laborous on SF tv;
-Neelix was a good character. C'mon- when he left, and Tuvok did a foot dance? How could you hate Neelix.
-I like that VOYAGER didn't look all battle damaged as the series went on. That was a great-looking ship and it was treated respectfully.
-I like that the producers didn't have ongoing friction between the Maqui (sp?) and the Federation people. That negative energy is for DS9. It wouldn't have helped VOYAGER. You root for the crew to get home. It was compelling. Who wants to root for a judgemental, petty infighting crew? Not me.
(As to the cast debate: I think chemistry off-screen absolutely translates onscreen. I didn't buy any of the relationships on DS9- just because it's in the script-doesn't make it real. You can feel the distance on DS9. Conversely, TOS- you can absolutely feel the comradeship between Shatner-Nimoy-Kelley, right?)
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