Accept or Reject Enterprise
- Thread starter M.A.C.O.
- Start date
I watched on the Defiant scenes from In a mirror Darkly on youtube. I remember thinking to myself: "There is no way that's all there is. They spent the time and the money to construct sets and the CGI model."
I streamed both parts from Netflix. I watched in Sony HD, 3D and surround sound.
Sucked. Ripoffs various TOS tv, Hidden Frontier and SCE episodes. Very insulting. How could this be one of the best episodes!?
I, as a viewer define canon.
I streamed both parts from Netflix. I watched in Sony HD, 3D and surround sound.
Sucked. Ripoffs various TOS tv, Hidden Frontier and SCE episodes. Very insulting. How could this be one of the best episodes!?
I, as a viewer define canon.
I watched most of S1 and S2, about half of S3 and all of S4 in First Run. I didn't think much of S1 and 2 (And admittedly watched with my preconceived notions that made me hate the Temporal Cold War stuff and thought S4 was what it should've been all along), thought S3 was an imporvement and really enjoyed S4.
Then, I did a rewatch recently, all the way through, let go of my preconceived notions, and I gained a new appreciation For S1 and S2.
I just got back from that convention as well and it was a blast. The most memorable events for me involved the ENT cast. I talked to/ asked Dominic Keating a question at his panel. Connor Trinneer mistook me for one of the Hot n Juicy girl, which was flattering. I got to high-five Scott Bakula as he ran down the aisles at the Captain's panel because he felt bad for us folks in the cheap seats.
Anyway yes, I accept it. It's considered cannon, even TAS is considered cannon. I don't think you should reject something and call it non-cannon just because you don't like it, just say "meh, it's not my favorite; i don't care for it; i hate that series; etc."
I don't like DS9 (shocked gasps everywhere) but I don't reject it, it's Star Trek.
TNG used to be my favorite but lately my favorite might be ENT, it teeters.
It's all Star Trek ^_^
Oh oh oh and someone mentioned to Connor that in the books they made him not dead and he was like "What?!?" It was pretty funny.
On a side note the only thing that I reject as non-cannon is the JJ Abrams films obviously, because it is in fact an alternate timeline.
Anyway yes, I accept it. It's considered cannon, even TAS is considered cannon. I don't think you should reject something and call it non-cannon just because you don't like it, just say "meh, it's not my favorite; i don't care for it; i hate that series; etc."
I don't like DS9 (shocked gasps everywhere) but I don't reject it, it's Star Trek.
TNG used to be my favorite but lately my favorite might be ENT, it teeters.
It's all Star Trek ^_^
Oh oh oh and someone mentioned to Connor that in the books they made him not dead and he was like "What?!?" It was pretty funny.
On a side note the only thing that I reject as non-cannon is the JJ Abrams films obviously, because it is in fact an alternate timeline.
^ Beat me to it.
10 years on and still nothing has changed...
I accepted The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager from day one. All three tested my patience to the limit far more than Enterprise. Quality all over the shop until the third and fourth years, by which time I'd learnt to go back and find some enjoyment among the crap that led to a high water mark.
My opinion hasn't really changed much, slowly ploughing through Season 1 of TNG in HD. I'm enjoying noticing new details in the resolution and hearing new stories about the production but that's about it.
Oh well, back to the TARDIS. Next stop 2022, to see if this dog has had its day by then!
I accepted The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager from day one. All three tested my patience to the limit far more than Enterprise. Quality all over the shop until the third and fourth years, by which time I'd learnt to go back and find some enjoyment among the crap that led to a high water mark.
My opinion hasn't really changed much, slowly ploughing through Season 1 of TNG in HD. I'm enjoying noticing new details in the resolution and hearing new stories about the production but that's about it.
Oh well, back to the TARDIS. Next stop 2022, to see if this dog has had its day by then!
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Drop me a line. I'd like to hear what the fan reaction to Justin Beiber as NuNuKirk is.10 years on and still nothing has changed...
I accepted The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager from day one. All three tested my patience to the limit far more than Enterprise. Quality all over the shop until the third and fourth years, by which time I'd learnt to go back and find some enjoyment among the crap that led to a high water mark.
My opinion hasn't really changed much, slowly ploughing through Season 1 of TNG in HD. I'm enjoying noticing new details in the resolution and hearing new stories about the production but that's about it.
Oh well, back to the TARDIS. Next stop 2022, to see if this dog has had its day by then!
Before ENT even premiered, it had two huge things going against it for me:
1. The design of the ship.
2. The fact that it was a prequel.
For the first item, I won't delve too deeply into what most people already know: that the NX-01 was based on the Akira class starship (and was actually going to be the Akira until Doug Drexler was able to redesign the ship). I know most fans of ENT could care less what the ship looked like, and that's their rightful choice. But I cared, because I've always cared what the hero ship looked like in all Trek series. I loved the Enterprise-D and the Defiant, and while I didn't particularly care for the Voyager series, I did respect Rick Sternbach's design principles for the U.S.S. Voyager. To me however, UPN, Berman, Braga, or whoever it was that made the decision to recycle a background ship from two centuries in the future as the hero ship, was just a boneheaded idea and certainly didn't fill me with a lot of confidence that it would accurately portray 22nd century science and technology. And on that note...
The Prequel Idea: Although I can really only speak for myself, I truly believe that a whole lot of Trek fans had their own ideas of how the Federation and Starfleet was formed, how the Romulan War went, and overall life in the 22nd century, based on factors such as "Balance of Terror" and several past publications both official and not, whether novels, RPGs, etc. I know I had a preconceived notion of this period of time. So when I learned ENT was going the way of The Phantom Menace, I immediately had two thoughts: "It's not going to be like what I imagined it would be like," and "There's no way in hell they're going to portray the birth of the Federation in a believable way." And in my opinion, I was right on both counts. I felt that ENT was more of a prequel to Voyager than it was a prequel to TOS. It never felt in any way more "primitive" than what I saw in TNG. The scripts could have been used for episodes of Voyager and there would have been little difference. In a nutshell, I was not convinced. I stopped watching the show halfway through the second season, and only picked it back up for the fourth season, which admittedly was much better.
Now, several years later, watching the show on Netflix, I've come to realize that I might have been too harsh. It still has its faults (decon-chamber, anyone?), but when I watch it just for it's merits and not try to judge it solely as a prequel to TOS which it most certainly is not, then I find that I enjoy it more. Of course, it could have been so much more than it was, but it's over and done with, and there's no point crying over what could have been.
1. The design of the ship.
2. The fact that it was a prequel.
For the first item, I won't delve too deeply into what most people already know: that the NX-01 was based on the Akira class starship (and was actually going to be the Akira until Doug Drexler was able to redesign the ship). I know most fans of ENT could care less what the ship looked like, and that's their rightful choice. But I cared, because I've always cared what the hero ship looked like in all Trek series. I loved the Enterprise-D and the Defiant, and while I didn't particularly care for the Voyager series, I did respect Rick Sternbach's design principles for the U.S.S. Voyager. To me however, UPN, Berman, Braga, or whoever it was that made the decision to recycle a background ship from two centuries in the future as the hero ship, was just a boneheaded idea and certainly didn't fill me with a lot of confidence that it would accurately portray 22nd century science and technology. And on that note...
The Prequel Idea: Although I can really only speak for myself, I truly believe that a whole lot of Trek fans had their own ideas of how the Federation and Starfleet was formed, how the Romulan War went, and overall life in the 22nd century, based on factors such as "Balance of Terror" and several past publications both official and not, whether novels, RPGs, etc. I know I had a preconceived notion of this period of time. So when I learned ENT was going the way of The Phantom Menace, I immediately had two thoughts: "It's not going to be like what I imagined it would be like," and "There's no way in hell they're going to portray the birth of the Federation in a believable way." And in my opinion, I was right on both counts. I felt that ENT was more of a prequel to Voyager than it was a prequel to TOS. It never felt in any way more "primitive" than what I saw in TNG. The scripts could have been used for episodes of Voyager and there would have been little difference. In a nutshell, I was not convinced. I stopped watching the show halfway through the second season, and only picked it back up for the fourth season, which admittedly was much better.
Now, several years later, watching the show on Netflix, I've come to realize that I might have been too harsh. It still has its faults (decon-chamber, anyone?), but when I watch it just for it's merits and not try to judge it solely as a prequel to TOS which it most certainly is not, then I find that I enjoy it more. Of course, it could have been so much more than it was, but it's over and done with, and there's no point crying over what could have been.
Depends, is Hoshi in there?
I own the complete series on DVD but consider it, along with Insurrection, Trek's biggest missed opportunity. They had a chance to make something truly unique yet chose to play it safe.
Accept it or reject it? Does it really matter? The show is over and will likely never be revisited again.
Accept it or reject it? Does it really matter? The show is over and will likely never be revisited again.
Again, I don't get people implying that I "must" accept a show or movie in ANY capacity. Canon-shmanon: it's entertainment, or lack there of. If it's not entertaining me, I don't have to accept it.
Getting back to the Star Wars example, The Phantom Menace (IMO) is complete and utter garbage. I saw it all the way through on opening day, have tried to rewatch it, and still have the same opinion of it. Aside from Luke's dad being "the best starpilot in the galaxy" and being "seduced by the Dark Side," and General Kenobi serving Bail Organa in the "Clone Wars," I really didn't have too many pre-rebellion concepts/ideas/thoughts about how things were or should be. I was 100% open to the concept of a prequel. The problems began when the story had no primary protagonist, nor did the "tragic" character have a fall from good to evil in the following movies since he always seemed to be a bit of a douche, plus killed women and children, had no love skills and comes off like a total creeper, and is TRICKED into turning sides rather than "seduced" by power.
With Enterprise, my preconception of what came before Kirk's time was even less than what it was for Star Wars: Pre-23rd century = Daedalus as some point, Romulans and Feds at war, an Enterprise that looked nothing like Starfleet ships of Kirk's or Picard's eras....and that was it.
But they blew it with episode 1 when they fell back on Klingons, and had a race of Spongebob Squarepantses (the Suliban) as a primary and lackluster adversary. Imagine if the ANDORIANS had been the primary adversaries, and the story arc was about how they went from enemies with humans and Vulcans, to allies. I bet we would have gotten a Season 5 had the writers chose to do what was done in season 4 - Explore the races that were introduced, but never fleshed out from the TOS era.
The writers really had no excuses either, as there was a giant history of previous Star Trek shows to fall back on just with going by TOS, TAS and the 1st 6 movies alone. Plenty to go on with regards to exploration, 1st contacts and new and different aliens to discover.
Getting back to the Star Wars example, The Phantom Menace (IMO) is complete and utter garbage. I saw it all the way through on opening day, have tried to rewatch it, and still have the same opinion of it. Aside from Luke's dad being "the best starpilot in the galaxy" and being "seduced by the Dark Side," and General Kenobi serving Bail Organa in the "Clone Wars," I really didn't have too many pre-rebellion concepts/ideas/thoughts about how things were or should be. I was 100% open to the concept of a prequel. The problems began when the story had no primary protagonist, nor did the "tragic" character have a fall from good to evil in the following movies since he always seemed to be a bit of a douche, plus killed women and children, had no love skills and comes off like a total creeper, and is TRICKED into turning sides rather than "seduced" by power.
With Enterprise, my preconception of what came before Kirk's time was even less than what it was for Star Wars: Pre-23rd century = Daedalus as some point, Romulans and Feds at war, an Enterprise that looked nothing like Starfleet ships of Kirk's or Picard's eras....and that was it.
But they blew it with episode 1 when they fell back on Klingons, and had a race of Spongebob Squarepantses (the Suliban) as a primary and lackluster adversary. Imagine if the ANDORIANS had been the primary adversaries, and the story arc was about how they went from enemies with humans and Vulcans, to allies. I bet we would have gotten a Season 5 had the writers chose to do what was done in season 4 - Explore the races that were introduced, but never fleshed out from the TOS era.
The writers really had no excuses either, as there was a giant history of previous Star Trek shows to fall back on just with going by TOS, TAS and the 1st 6 movies alone. Plenty to go on with regards to exploration, 1st contacts and new and different aliens to discover.
There had been six hundred hours of Trek by the time the show premiered, quality wasn't the issue it was the fact that people were simply burnt out.
It could've been TOS reincarnated and it still would've been DOA in the ratings.
If people were that burned out, 12 million of them wouldn't have even bothered to watch the pilot. But they did.
Now, would the show have sustained that amount of viewers through its whole run? Of course not. Pilots almost always garner higher ratings than most of the show's following episodes, particularly if there's a high amount of interest surrounding them. But if ENT had come charging out the gate with a genuinely fresh take on Trek, perhaps it wouldn't have hemorrhaged viewers as badly as it did. If the show had averaged even half the numbers that the pilot scored, it probably would have lasted the traditional seven seasons.
The audience wasn't burned out, the creators were.
While I do agree with the "burn out" theory as part of its demise, I honestly feel the primary issues were that neither the characters nor the situations they were in were compelling enough for most Trek or sci-fi fans to want to keep returning every week.
The other problems which alienated many Trek fans:
1.the constant retconning
2.high-end technology that looked like it was late 23rd century
3.aliens and planets of the week with rarely any familiar aliens or planets
4.and the Temporal Cold War story just seemed to get on everyone's nerves.
That's exactly the way I see it. In the beginning the Nx-01's crew were like a bunch of college graduates. Naive and thinking they have a handle on everything...only to stumble around aimlessly and make countless errors over the next few years until they finally fall into things.
What worries me most is Trek's Legacy. I have a hard time defending and explaining the whole ENT idea that mind melds give you AIDS thing and that Vulcans of the ENT era frowned upon and or were ignorant of them. While in TOS and beyond that was Spock's signature trademark along with the Vulcan salute. Even people who don't know a lot about Star Trek know what a mind meld is. It's a really stupid idea and I omit it's continuity in the greater Trekverse due to it being a horrible idea and created by people who made it apart of 'canon' for no reason.
The midicholirians being what creates the force and midicholorians creating Anakin is a stretch, and was really a macguffin for the Jedi to establish that Anakin was the "chosen one" and that he was special. The Mind meld aids things hurts the canon of the show unlike the midicholorian force thing can't be undone or explained away
The midicholirians being what creates the force and midicholorians creating Anakin is a stretch, and was really a macguffin for the Jedi to establish that Anakin was the "chosen one" and that he was special. The Mind meld aids things hurts the canon of the show unlike the midicholorian force thing can't be undone or explained away
You missed the point. It was a story arc. And it seems you didn't watch season four's conclusion to it, showing how Vulcan went from how it was at the start of Enterprise to how we saw them in The Original Series.
The minute they came out with the "Mind meld taboo" stuff I thought they were just rehashing DS9's Trill Symbiont plot - where we'll find out they can all do it and it's a big BS campaign by those in charge. I was right.
While i agree the Kir'Shara was a good arc at explaining the mind meld debacle. It still comes across to me as an Eleventh Hour edition to the story. Had ENT been cancelled at 3 season, the established canon wouldve remained mind melds give you a disease. It just seems such an unnecessary tag on to such a trademark. If the creators of ENT wanted to do a show about AIDS or the stigma that's fine but why drag a recognizable act like mind melds down in the mud with it? It's just as convoluted as Betazed telepathy can give you cancer, touching a Changeling in liquid form we give you gangrene or some other disease.
I don't want to watch TOS, and TNG and be constantly reminded that everytime someone mind melds they could give them pa'nar/AIDS. Spock mind melds with Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, Dr. McCoy and several aliens during the course of the TOS. Everytime he could have potentially given them mind AIDS. In the film he gives McCoy his katra/soul through mind melding which saves his life, he mind melds with a female whale in the Voyage Home and Valeris in Undiscovered Country. He could've given them all AIDS too. Lastly he mind melds with Picard in Unification and with alternate reality Kirk.
My point its attaching such an ugly concept to such a recognizable and genuinely benevolent and poetic trademark only hurts the greater story. It comes off as mean spirited by the writers/creators and seems unrealistic in the context of the show. that 100 years after the Kir'Shara was discovered the highly logical and scientific race of vulcans would embrace such an art/technique, despite being a highly advanced civilization.
I don't want to watch TOS, and TNG and be constantly reminded that everytime someone mind melds they could give them pa'nar/AIDS. Spock mind melds with Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, Dr. McCoy and several aliens during the course of the TOS. Everytime he could have potentially given them mind AIDS. In the film he gives McCoy his katra/soul through mind melding which saves his life, he mind melds with a female whale in the Voyage Home and Valeris in Undiscovered Country. He could've given them all AIDS too. Lastly he mind melds with Picard in Unification and with alternate reality Kirk.
My point its attaching such an ugly concept to such a recognizable and genuinely benevolent and poetic trademark only hurts the greater story. It comes off as mean spirited by the writers/creators and seems unrealistic in the context of the show. that 100 years after the Kir'Shara was discovered the highly logical and scientific race of vulcans would embrace such an art/technique, despite being a highly advanced civilization.
