Abandoned ‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Finale Ideas Could Have Given the Sendoff It Deserved

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by USS Excelsior, May 24, 2021.

  1. Mogh

    Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I might broadly agree with "the journey being more important than the destination" - but as Robbie Duncan McNeill points out regularly on the Delta Flyers podcast, the hero's journey is one in which the hero has to lose something and then emerge better than they started.

    The idea that Voyager night have built a mini-Federation to take on the Borg as the act that delivers them would have shown far more growth than a sacrifice from Janeway, who had been prepared to do that all along.

    As oddish alludes to - the show was deliberately written to be shown out of order, so short of Janeway's hair or Tuvok's pips, it'd be hard to pin where they were and thus show any growth.

    If it was a hero's journey therefore, it was closer to Bill Murray's Groundhog Day and 170+ resets than an actual odyssey.
     
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  2. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    With two Bill Murray characters in the EMH and Seven. They actually managed significant growth and change.
     
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  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If nothing else, I wouldn't consider "Endgame"'s ending fine because of the appalling disregard Our "Heroes" show for basically everyone else in the universe.
     
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Both of these assertions are incorrect.

    I do not believe and have never believed that Voyager and her crew getting home was ever in doubt, and so I don't need to see what happens after they accomplish that goal.

    Endgame got the ship home, which means it did exactly what it needed to.
     
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  5. Mogh

    Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As they say on Wikipedia, "citation needed" :)
     
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  6. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How exactly did the characters grow and change? Aside from the Doc, Seven, and maybe Tom and B'Elanna?

    Was S1 Janeway that different from S7 Janeway? Did Chakotay grow from a rebellious, discontented rebel leader to a trusted ally? Did Harry Kim go from terrified and inexperienced kid to seasoned spacefarer? Did Kes experience the ups and downs of the journey of life? Remember that she experienced a third of her expected lifespan over the show, that's like 25-30y for a human.
     
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  7. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

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    I didn't see it that way. I didn't consider that a necessary end for the series at all; in fact, I viewed it as a predictable avenue to take. I would have been fine with an "and the adventure continues" ending. I would actually have liked that better, I think.

    But okay, you never questioned that that would be the resolution. So what you're saying is, they did exactly what you expected, and that's all you wanted. They didn't surprise you, they didn't expand on that ending, and that's all you wanted.

    Me, I would have liked a little more.
     
  8. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The conclusion of Caretaker made it crystal clear that the series' entire premise was going to be centered on the ship and her crew getting home, but even if it hadn't, the writers reiterated that goal numerous times, to the point that any other outcome would've been a "jump the shark" moment.
     
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  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So, Voyager establishing a 'federation' in the Delta Quadrant would have been a "jump the shark" moment?

    I guess we have very different interpretations of what it means to jump the shark.
     
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  10. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

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    @DigificWriter , you don't need to remind me of what happened on Voyager, thanks, and certainly not of any of its overarching themes. I watched the series from start to end, and many episodes more than once. And while it was an obvious assumption (and one that many fans I knew at the time shared) that the ship would get home by the end of the series, it always seemed a little too pat, too obvious, to me. I would have liked to see them go for something a little less predictable -- perhaps something like "embracing the journey," realizing that they already were home, that they were each others' family. Did I expect it? No. Voyager was never that bold. Did I want it? Well, yes.
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That may have been Voyager's chief problem right there. They played it safe too much.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's interesting you say that. I'm making my way through Agents of SHIELD currently, and that show in my estimation does progressively crazier things the farther one gets into it. In particular it almost lost me at the beginning of S5 when it seemed to be changing premises entirely. I imagine a fair number of viewers may have considered that a shark-jump moment, but I stuck with the show and I do think it managed to not go entirely off the rails. Love the risks or hate them, it certainly keeps you wondering WTH is going to happen next.
     
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  13. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's a difference between taking risks in your storytelling and completely ignoring or changing what you've set up.

    Voyager not getting home would have been an example of the writers completely ignoring/changing what they'd set up and would have, IMO, resulted in the kind of backlash that has forever torpedoed the legacy of Game of Thrones.
     
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  14. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's most other time travel episodes too.
     
  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know about most of them. Some, certainly. But a good deal of them are about putting things back correctly.

    "THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER", "Yesterday's Enterprise", STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT, "TIME AND AGAIN", "FUTURE'S END" both parts, "YEAR OF HELL" both parts, "RELATIVITY", "SHOCKWAVE, PART II", and "STORM FRONT" both parts.

    All are examples of fixing altered timelines. In almost all those cases, it's fixing things in a major way, like stopping the Borg from assimilating Earth's past or making sure the Federation actually gets created.
     
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  16. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Endgame basically seemed to repeat a storyline that we got in "The Visitor", "Timeless", and "Year of Hell". Only it wasn't nearly as good as any of them.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Perhaps it's unfair, but those also weren't final episodes of the series.

    My second major complaint would be that we didn't get to see what happens to anyone after they return to Earth (with a minor quibble being why it has to be Earth in particular that's such a big deal - surely Tuvok is more interested in Vulcan, for instance).
     
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  18. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As I said earlier, what happened after Voyager made it home wasn't important; getting home was.

    And they identified Earth as 'home' because that's where Starfleet and Federation HQ are.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not important to you. Evidently not important to TPTB either, which I'd say was one of possibly many ways in which they failed to appreciate their audience.

    You might find people less critical of your posts if you made more of an effort to present them as your opinions rather than as matters-of-fact.
     
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well said. I was especially irritated by how at pains they were to explain what happened to everyone in "Endgame", then erase that outcome and replace it with exactly nothing.