A Warp Core Breach?

[James Wright]

What would cause a warp core breach that could totally obilerate a siarship before the crew could get off or a distress call could be sent?
Where was the Starship Hera when she disappeared & could a warp core breach have destroyed the ship?

JDW

 

[Unicron]

I think the Horatio was destroyed in this fashion in "Conspiracy", though I can't recall whether it was an actual breach or not. But it could clearly be done through sabotage.

 

[Lonestar]

Well, in Cause and Effect, the Enterprise was destroyed several times by a warp core breach and they didn't manage to evacuate anyone, that was caused by a collision with another starship. It depends on the circumstances.

 

[AlxxlA]

I guess that different types of core breaches take different amounts of time to... Um... Breach.

 

[Christopher]

Well, when the phrase "warp core breach" was first used in "Contagion," it was alleged to be something unprecedented and nearly impossible given all the multiply redundant safeties in place. But once the phrase had been established, the writers got lazy and started invoking it over and over again, until it got to the point that warp cores were like car gas tanks in bad action movies, so fragile that they're constantly blowing up at the slightest provocation. So there's no way to give a meaningful answer to the question of what causes a warp core breach. It's caused by anything that the plot requires.

 

[Deckerd]

Quark had a cocktail called a Warp Core Breach, but I never did find out what went into it.

 

[Meredith]

Quark had a cocktail called a Warp Core Breach, but I never did find out what went into it.

I've had that, it is pretty good at erasing several hours of one's life.

 

[Vanyel]

What would cause a warp core breach that could totally obilerate a siarship before the crew could get off or a distress call could be sent?
Where was the Starship Hera when she disappeared & could a warp core breach have destroyed the ship?

JDW

A massive system failure that caused the antimatter containment field to collapse. That or sabotage where one(s) bypassed the safeties and madethe containment fields drop.

I don't know about the Hera, Starfleet went looking for her, and - as I recall- found no wreckage. Even a warp core breach leaves some wreckage and/or radiation that can be picked up by sensors.

 

[That Weirdo In The Corner]

I've never understood the countdown to a warp core breach. correct me if I'm wrong, I've always assumed a warp core breach is an unwanted matter antimatter reaction and given how powerful that reaction is I've never understood how the computer can have a two minute countdown surely it would be instant destruction. but tensions better on TV I guess.

 

[Christopher]

^^Supposedly it's the countdown to the point where the field weakens to the point of collapse. ST often assumes that such deterioration (also including things like hull stress fractures) can be predicted to the second, rather than relying on numerous unpredictable variables and an element of chaos.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Well, when the phrase "warp core breach" was first used in "Contagion," it was alleged to be something unprecedented and nearly impossible given all the multiply redundant safeties in place. But once the phrase had been established, the writers got lazy and started invoking it over and over again, until it got to the point that warp cores were like car gas tanks in bad action movies, so fragile that they're constantly blowing up at the slightest provocation. So there's no way to give a meaningful answer to the question of what causes a warp core breach. It's caused by anything that the plot requires.

This term always bothered me. A few shots, like the climatic battle in "Yesterday's Enterprise," and the whole damn ship is ready to blow up.

 

[JarodRussell]

I'm sorry to bump this, but since the thread already existed...

What exactly is supposed to happen during a warp core breach? Is the antimatter storage exploding, or is the warp core, the blue pulsating thing in the middle of the engine room exploding? And why does that destroy the whole ship? And why does ejecting the core save the ship?

I thought a warp core works like a car engine: the antimatter is injected at the bottom of the tube, antiproton by antiproton, and meets a proton (injected at the top of the tube) in the reaction chamber.

So why would the warp core tube be loaded with antimatter? And can't they just stop that process by stopping the injection of antimatter?

Every time the warp core breaches, they all act like an uncontrolled, unstoppable reaction was going on. Like a chain reaction in a nuclear reactor. But I think the analogy with the car engine is more sound. Stop the injection, and the car stops. And if you want to blow up a car, you need to blow up the fuel tank, and not the engine.

 

[Cmdr Sho]

I'm sorry to bump this, but since the thread already existed...

What exactly is supposed to happen during a warp core breach? Is the antimatter storage exploding, or is the warp core, the blue pulsating thing in the middle of the engine room exploding? And why does that destroy the whole ship? And why does ejecting the core save the ship?

I thought a warp core works like a car engine: the antimatter is injected at the bottom of the tube, antiproton by antiproton, and meets a proton (injected at the top of the tube) in the reaction chamber.

So why would the warp core tube be loaded with antimatter? And can't they just stop that process by stopping the injection of antimatter?

Every time the warp core breaches, they all act like an uncontrolled, unstoppable reaction was going on. Like a chain reaction in a nuclear reactor. But I think the analogy with the car engine is more sound. Stop the injection, and the car stops. And if you want to blow up a car, you need to blow up the fuel tank, and not the engine.

the explosion would take place at the core (big thing in middle of engine room), because that is were all the combineing takes place, and were the containment field is...
i assume that the antimatter flow is one of those automated systems, but i could be wrong.... plus i dont think that just stopping the antimatter flow will solve the problem.. what about everything else in the reaction chamber? the warp plasma and dilithium crystals would still be in there... not to mention matter...

other answers to the first question are this. as for how does it destroy the whole ship? ask your self this... how does a nuclear bomb destroy a city? same principles (i assume) would go for a warp core breach.. now if we eject the core, the explosive components are gone, so we have a intact ship.... like dropping a nuclear bomb on a city with no nuclear parts in it.... result=====> safe and intact city...

 

[sojourner]

GEEAaaahhhhh!! Zombie Thread!!!! Run!!

 

[JarodRussell]

plus i dont think that just stopping the antimatter flow will solve the problem.. what about everything else in the reaction chamber? the warp plasma and dilithium crystals would still be in there... not to mention matter...

Of course it would.

Warp plasma: Yeah, it's hot, but it can be vented. Dilithium crystals: are harmless, they are not even toxic. And what about the matter? Without antimatter there's only protons in the reaction chamber. So what? That's totally harmless.

the explosion would take place at the core (big thing in middle of engine room), because that is were all the combineing takes place, and were the containment field is...

The containment field is everywhere the antimatter goes, from the storage containers to the blue tube. It's there to prevent any contact of antimatter with matter, until it reaches the dilithium crystal.

other answers to the first question are this. as for how does it destroy the whole ship? ask your self this... how does a nuclear bomb destroy a city? same principles (i assume) would go for a warp core breach.. now if we eject the core, the explosive components are gone, so we have a intact ship

Well my point was that it's not comparable to a nuclear reaction. There is no critical mass to reach. It's a simple, very controlled proton/antiproton reaction. Stop the injection of antimatter, and nothing happens.

 

[Christopher]

See, the problem is, when the term "warp core breach" was introduced in "Contagion," it was presented as a freak accident that required the simultaneous failure of dozens of different systems. It was supposed to be something that was virtually impossible, and that was part of the mystery. Unfortunately, later writers overlooked that part and just went with the pithy, recognizable phrase. Here's the scene from "Contagion," courtesy of Chakoteya's transcript site:

LAFORGE: Sensor recordings reveal that what we witnessed was an uncontrolled and catastrophic matter-antimatter mix. The magnetic seals between the chambers collapsed and
PICARD: Wait. Wait. That's not possible.
LAFORGE: Yes, sir, it is, but a highly improbable series of events has to take place for such a result to occur.
PICARD: Explain.
LAFORGE: Okay. In the event of a breach of seal integrity there's an emergency release system which dumps the antimatter.
DATA: Apparently such a dump began, was then halted, and the containment seals were dropped. There was still sufficient antimatter present to lead to an explosion.

Now, this dialogue seems to imply that there are matter and antimatter "chambers" adjacent to each other, which isn't quite consistent with how the warp reactor was designed. But that's TV for you; the things in the writer's bible and technical notes are just suggestions, and if the script calls for something different, you ignore the suggestions. (Cf. "holodeck matter" in the Moriarty episodes.)

 

[Timo]

I don't see the contradiction in the "Contagion" dialogue. It's unlikely as all hell for the ship to fail for no good reason. Doesn't mean that it would be unlikely for her to fail when Klingon or Romulan warships are pounding her to pieces.

Now, this dialogue seems to imply that there are matter and antimatter "chambers" adjacent to each other, which isn't quite consistent with how the warp reactor was designed.

The "adjacent" part isn't necessary IMHO. The impossibility, the one on which Picard immediately and rightly comments, is that two distant chambers could be connected all the way through the complex piping that separates them.

What is at odds with later experiences is the supposed ability of the system to dump all antimatter in normal failure situations. That must be a hellishly complex operation in a system of the TNG Tech Manual description, with great lengths of piping to be purged; I rather doubt it could really have saved the Yamato.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Plecostomus]

I have, with the help of my step father who is an expert in all things nuclear... sat down and defined what happens during a core breach.

First of all there are multiple triggering events that can lead to this situation.

First and foremost is loss of cooling to the chamber field generators. As those generators heat up field output drops and the pressure/heat of the reaction can push through in an uncontrolled manor, causing the ship to go FOOOOM.

Second would be the collapse of the articulation frame, this would result in an uncontrolled mix, a surge of power and the failure of containment.

Third, physical failure of the pressure-vessel and destruction of the field-effector elements. Think like a disruptor burn or a bomb.

Finally, exotic particles and subspace stuff. Who knows what really goes on in the pretend-core? The writers do, and if they say muons can cause an explosion so be it.


We also worked this out in regards to the Galaxy Class's inability to eject the core right:

Cryogenic slush/fluid is circulated from the main matter tank down to the reaction chamber where it is circulated in "water jackets" around the core, it picks up heat. From there it is piped up to the injector and shot down the constrictor segments and into the core to react with antimatter.

The fuel system in effect is part of the cooling system. Shutting off the fuel flow causes a loss of major portion of the cooling system. Shutting down the core to a standby/cold-iron mode requires at a minimum 45 min or more. In an emergency situation the antimatter system can be shut down and the matter system continues to run producing normal "fusion" plasma and that is gradually ramped down.

In extreme cases the system was to cut off the flow of fuel and coolant, purge the conduits and launch the core out of the ship at very very high speeds. Practically speaking the conditions that would allow that to happen never really occurred.

During the events of Generations, LaForge (being THE Galaxy-class expert) knew that there was no way to shutdown or eject the core in time. This lead to the evacuation of the ship. I can see this being SOP after the loss of the Yammato, rather than risk a core ejection attempt, get everyone off and then try... dialog suggests that the core breach happened ahead of the countdown, which is why the saucer got knocked out of orbit.


Later ship designs used a less complex cooling/fuel system and included additional layers of redundent protection so the core could be disconnected and ejected nearly "at will."

 

[Tigger]

We do see the earliest stages of a warp core breech in the episode "Timescape" with "steam" coming out of the reaction chamber.

 

[T'Girl]

^ I think the steam was plasma escaping from the continuous matter/antimatter fed "fireball" in the reaction chamber of the warp core. What we saw in Timescape was the warp core bursting open because the containment field had failed on that side of the chamber. Between the series and the movies how many time did they attempt to eject the core and fail, five or six. I wonder if Picard ever dressed down Geordi in his office for his inability to effect a successful ejection yet again?

Picard: "Mister LaForge, then next time I order the ejection of the warp core, would it be a terrible bother for you to actual do it?