we've been talking about it non-stop for forty-years.
....and the general population knows either the images, catchphrases, some idea of certain plots, etc., of TOS--and did not need JJ's bubblegum to achieve that.
A TOS resurgence?
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
....and the general population knows either the images, catchphrases, some idea of certain plots, etc., of TOS--and did not need JJ's bubblegum to achieve that.
we've been talking about it non-stop for forty-years.
....and the general population knows either the images, catchphrases, some idea of certain plots, etc., of TOS--and did not need JJ's bubblegum to achieve that.
To a point. But I believe that TOS (and Modern Trek) was beginning to fade from the consciousness of the general public prior to the Abrams films. Most fans will always be fans, but continuing to hold the interest of the general audience is a much tougher trick. Especially when no new material is being produced.
STAR TREK: The Original Series is so much fun ..."F-U-N"!
I Love It!!!
The colourful sets and costumes. The sillyness and camp of it all ...
It's great that J.J. Abrams has gotten the franchise back on track.
And a course that's so sure ... and so secure ... that we can all say,
sincerely say, to ourselves & to eachother: STAR TREK LIVES!!!
I Love It!!!
The colourful sets and costumes. The sillyness and camp of it all ...
It's great that J.J. Abrams has gotten the franchise back on track.
And a course that's so sure ... and so secure ... that we can all say,
sincerely say, to ourselves & to eachother: STAR TREK LIVES!!!
Yes.we've been talking about it non-stop for forty-years.
....and the general population knows either the images, catchphrases, some idea of certain plots, etc., of TOS--and did not need JJ's bubblegum to achieve that.
The Berman productions died, not the interest or popularity of TOS.
The NG films hit a new low with each new entry, DS9 was what could be best described as a niche interest within ST fandom, while Voyager and Enterprise (aside from a couple of episodes in E's final season) force fed all that was ever wrong with Berman's stewardship to the point where it was hardly ST at all.
In comes JJ, and instead of creating all new characters, or trying to piggyback on the Berman shows, the studio went to the face, heart--universally recognized identity of the ST concept: TOS. One can argue--confidently--that the JJ films did not bring attention back to TOS, but the situation was/is reversed.
All one has to ask is: would anyone care about a JJ-Trek film with new or rebooted Berman characters?
No.
Yes, again.
Out of all the old franchises that have gotten reboots, Star Trek seems to be the only one that has actually made people want to go back and watch the originals again. Shows like Twilight Zone still have a fanbase but it's nothing near the lifestyle obsession that Star Trek generated.
Does anyone else think it's ironic that science fiction fans are the group that are least bothered by low production values in old television shows?
I do think that there would be significant interest in Young Picard, if he behaved like the one we learned about in Tapestry.
Does anyone else think it's ironic that science fiction fans are the group that are least bothered by low production values in old television shows?
I do think that there would be significant interest in Young Picard, if he behaved like the one we learned about in Tapestry.
Though I don't like the Abrams films, I think it's great that it's brought some more attention to the Star Trek source material. The one thing Abrams did right was to go back to the Star Trek source material.
... AGREED!!!
Unfortunately, the time-period where his stabbing takes place is not properly situated for any kind of a series. But yes, Young Picard was very interesting and dynamic. I'm convinced he would capture the imagination of a very broad audience. What a shame another reboot is required, just to explore that. There's canon, getting in the way, again ...
but what can you do? You know? What can you do.
Post TOS-R, there was nothing new in the TOS world, beyond novels, comics and merchandise which is purchased by 2% or less of the TV viewing and moviegoing audience. You may like to pretend that's enough, but once that ageing fanbase was gone, there would have been nothing. Fan films were popular for a time, but the latest entries from Phase II and Continues have less than 200,000 views each on Youtube. A good selling Trek novel shifts around 300,000 copies. ST'09 sold more than 7 million copies on DVD alone and is the #4 best selling Bluray of all time in the US with 4 million copies sold. Unlike the fan films, people actually had to pay money for those. ST'09's release led to a spike in sales of past Trek on DVD. After Into Darkness was released, Wrath of Khan became the #1 on-demand rental.TREK_GOD_1 said:
I think it's pretty irrefutable that the new created a surge of interest in the old.
We did not say that JJ did not contribute to renewed interest in TOS. Indeed if you back to my original post that started this thread you'll see I even mention the films. What we dispute is the assertion that JJ "saved" the franchise. That is patent b.s.I see. So this thread is basically about Warped9 and TREKGOD delusionally agreeing with each other about how JJTrek did nothing to help the TOS resurgence that is the subject of the OP.
Gotcha. I'm outta here.
I still don't understand the hate that the Abrams films get from some people. When I watch them, I feel like a kid again experiencing Trek for the first time.
They are simply damn fun to watch (Into Darkness is on EPIX right now). Not perfect, but then neither was TOS.
They are simply damn fun to watch (Into Darkness is on EPIX right now). Not perfect, but then neither was TOS.
JJ-Trek benefited from/was watched at all because Star Trek TOS, not the other way around.
From Star Trek fans, yes. General audiences likely thought it looked like a good sci-fi/action movie from the trailers and commercials.
...but you cannot get around...
Without TOS, JJ has no ST film. TOS as a cultural magnet was the point of interest, otherwise, he would have watered down another group of characters, and no one would have paid attention.
Was busy with some other things and hit reply before finishing my thoughts.
Yes, the Abramsverse films obviously owe their existence to TOS. As does every other bit of Trek made since 1969. Yes, the opening weekend obviously benefited by Star Trek (2009) being the first Kirk and Spock adventure since 1991. But there was more to it than just that. People obviously enjoyed the two films or else folks wouldn't have kept showing up for them. The films had good "word-of-mouth" or else they'd have opened and dropped off the radar almost instantly, much like the last two TNG film outings.
I've tried to explain more than enough times why I find JJtrek offensive I don't know why I bother trying to explain anymore.
But I will say that the old argument of TOS wasn't perfect doesn't wash because it's a weak argument. Nothing is ever perfect, even those things we love. But TOS never stopped trying even when they stumbled. All JJtrek did was pander to way overdone cliches and cheap expectations. It went for the adolescent sensibilities.
One thing I absolutely love about TOS is that unlike all the other popular sci-fi of the era was that it aimed higher. As an 11 year old and into my early teens I could enjoy the adventure and cool visuals and hardware. And as the years passed I could see that TOS worked even better on an adult level where I could appreciate all those things I was only dimly aware of when I was younger.
From where I stand JJ made a Trek indistinguishable from Star Wars or Lost In Space--sci-fi for adolescents. It had none of the intelligence, nuance or adult oriented sensibilities of the source materiel.
I cannot argue its popular success, but then again I reject all sorts of stuff that can be popular all while also being disposable.
JJtrek exists because of TOS' popularity and very existence. It could well have generated additional interest in TOS. But it absolutely did not revive interest in TOS or supposedly "save" the franchise.
I found them snoozefests. I yawned my way through both of them. But, yes, the irrational hatred is bizarre.
All Trek every written, produced, and released exists because of TOS's popularity and very existence. No one in this thread arguing otherwise, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Some here are overestimating how familiar TOS is to later generations. There are later generations of Trek fans on this board who haven't watched TOS, or who've tried to watch it and not enjoyed it. And these are people who care enough about Trek to hang out on a Trek-themed BBS. Imagine how much less familiar their non-fan contemporaries must be with this TV show that more or less turns 50 this year....
