A-Team: TV Series

[Knight Templar]

No. Mr. T and Peppard were NOT on speaking terms. Peppard called T an "embarrassment" on national TV, and they never spoke again. Even when filming the show, they would talk only through Dirk or Dwight, even when all of them were filming a scene together.

I remember Dirk acting out a little scene of what it was like on set. George would tell Dirk,"Tell HIM that I want him to come in sooner when I finish my line."

"Um, OK. Mr T? George wants you to come in a bit sooner when he finishes that line."

"Tell him, fine; I'll do it sooner."

"George? He said he'll do it."

And all of this went on, every day, even when they were all only inches from each other.

Undoubtedly true as George Peppard was known as being horrible to work with from time to time. Though word was when the "A-Team" first started out Peppard and Mr. T were like father and son.

It was George Peppard who decided that the "A-Team didn't need a girl" so forced the removal of both actresses who starred on the show at one point.

 

[Christopher]

I was always annoyed that the A-Team never killed anyone.

Why? Killing is bad. And the show was essentially a cartoon anyway. It was light-hearted fun. Treating death as a subject of goofy fun would've been in poor taste.

Especially given that many of the times they could've killed someone it would've been in obvious self defense and it was against people who were murderers themselves.

No, it would not have been self-defense, because the A-Team were deliberately going after those people. Legally speaking, homicide can only be justified as self-defense if it's your only choice, like if you're trapped in a room or backed against a wall and don't have the option to run away, or if it's the only way to save someone else from immediate mortal danger. The A-Team were hired to confront and take down the people in question. They weren't cornered with no other option; they deliberately sought out and provoked the confrontation in the first place, and that negates self-defense.

Moreover, since they were hired to go after the bad guys, if they'd killed them intentionally, that would've been premeditated murder for hire, a very serious crime. Even if they went in without the intention to kill but ended up killing in the heat of the moment, it would still be murder, because their vigilante activities and use of firearms are themselves illegal acts, and killing during the commission of a dangerous felony, even by accident, is charged as murder under felony murder laws.

So there's good reason for the A-Team not to kill. They're already wanted felons for a crime they didn't commit, but they could theoretically clear their names and go free. If they killed, then they'd be guilty of a genuine, very serious crime, and there'd be no going back from that.

Not to mention that they're loyal United States military personnel, and thus presumably have no desire to take the lives of US citizens, even criminals.

After a couple of years, there is no way the A-Team would've had any kind of fearsome reputation left if they never killed anyone.

It's not as if anything else about the show made sense. (Like, how come the staff at the VA hospital never recognized Face even after he'd broken Murdock out dozens of times before?)

 

[auntiehill]

Good grief, I didn't think people actually did that outside of sitcoms. (Though it's hearsay, so Benedict may have been embellishing the story.)

True. Dirk does love to tell stories.

Plus, he and Mr. T became good friends and apparently, still are. So sides could have been taken. But from I've read/heard, Dirk and Dwight found George "amusing," rather than offensive. And Dirk had said in some interview that he had understood that The A-Team was initally to be George Peppard's star vehicle, but then the other characters started getting more lines, Mr. T became a huge star and the creative control he'd been promised was completely taken away from Peppard, making him just another cast member. Understandably, Peppard was pretty unhappy.

But again, it's someone else's version of events. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Knight Templar]

I was always annoyed that the A-Team never killed anyone.

Why? Killing is bad. And the show was essentially a cartoon anyway. It was light-hearted fun. Treating death as a subject of goofy fun would've been in poor taste.

Especially given that many of the times they could've killed someone it would've been in obvious self defense and it was against people who were murderers themselves.

No, it would not have been self-defense, because the A-Team were deliberately going after those people. Legally speaking, homicide can only be justified as self-defense if it's your only choice, like if you're trapped in a room or backed against a wall and don't have the option to run away, or if it's the only way to save someone else from immediate mortal danger. The A-Team were hired to confront and take down the people in question. They weren't cornered with no other option; they deliberately sought out and provoked the confrontation in the first place, and that negates self-defense.

Moreover, since they were hired to go after the bad guys, if they'd killed them intentionally, that would've been premeditated murder for hire, a very serious crime. Even if they went in without the intention to kill but ended up killing in the heat of the moment, it would still be murder, because their vigilante activities and use of firearms are themselves illegal acts, and killing during the commission of a dangerous felony, even by accident, is charged as murder under felony murder laws.

So there's good reason for the A-Team not to kill. They're already wanted felons for a crime they didn't commit, but they could theoretically clear their names and go free. If they killed, then they'd be guilty of a genuine, very serious crime, and there'd be no going back from that.

Not to mention that they're loyal United States military personnel, and thus presumably have no desire to take the lives of US citizens, even criminals.

After a couple of years, there is no way the A-Team would've had any kind of fearsome reputation left if they never killed anyone.

It's not as if anything else about the show made sense. (Like, how come the staff at the VA hospital never recognized Face even after he'd broken Murdock out dozens of times before?)

Well I do not see it that way Christopher.

The way I see it is that if someone is firing a machine gun at you intending to kill you then you have a right to use lethal force in response no matter what you were hired to do.

And excuse me, as someone once said.

"I'm a simple man. I believe there are evil people in the world. And if you kill ten evil people then the world is ten people better".

 

[Christopher]

The way I see it is that if someone is firing a machine gun at you intending to kill you then you have a right to use lethal force in response no matter what you were hired to do.

The way you see it is irrelevant. The way state and federal law see it is what matters here. You do not have the legally recognized right to use lethal force in an avoidable combat, because you never should've gotten into the combat in the first place. If you're the one initiating the fight, or choosing to engage in the fight when you have the option to retreat, you cannot claim self-defense, because the death or injury to the other party would not have happened if you hadn't sought out the conflict. That makes you, not them, the culpable party.

As I already explained, the issue here is not simply one of morality, but practicality -- whether the A-Team have the ability to clear their names at any point. As long as they're innocent of the murder they were falsely accused of, they can get off. Once they've committed murder as defined by the law, they've crossed a line they can never come back from.

Not that the show needed such justification, since it was pretty much a spoof anyway. I'm just saying that if you insist on applying a semblance of real-world sense to the comedy premise of the show, there's actually a good real-world argument in favor of them avoiding lethal force -- and that self-defense is not legally defined in a way that would give them a license to kill.

And excuse me, as someone once said.

"I'm a simple man. I believe there are evil people in the world. And if you kill ten evil people then the world is ten people better".

I don't accept that, but just for the sake of argument, even if you accept that killing can be necessary, it's still a very unpleasant thing, nothing to be enjoyed or celebrated unless you're evil yourself. So why seek it out? What's so wrong about having a light, fun TV show that isn't about death? Like I said, The A-Team is a cartoon. It's basically a weekly series of skits where four zany characters get to act out their comedy schticks. The bad guys don't die for the same reason Daffy Duck doesn't die when Elmer Fudd shoots him: because it's a comedy and the violence is merely parodic. The fact that they could fire a million bullets and not kill anyone is itself part of the underlying joke of the show, the parody of the unrealistic, over-the-top, consequence-free violence of '80s action TV.

 

[Forbin]

Oh, hell, Get Smart was a flat-out comedy and it had a hell of a body count, with lots of the killings played for laughs.

Anyhoo - it'd be interesting (though insanely tedious) to get a bullet count from the whole series. Just how many rounds did they fire over the years? And let's face it, firing all those shots and intentionally not killing anybody shows a hell of a lot of skill!!

 

[Christopher]

Oh, hell, Get Smart was a flat-out comedy and it had a hell of a body count, with lots of the killings played for laughs.

So? "Show X did it this way" is not an argument for why Show Y is obligated to do the same. And it's not like there's anything wrong with not having constant bloodshed in a TV show.

 

[Knight Templar]

As I already explained, the issue here is not simply one of morality, but practicality -- whether the A-Team have the ability to clear their names at any point. As long as they're innocent of the murder they were falsely accused of,.

The A-Team was not accused of murder. They were accused of robbing the bank of Hanoi in an unauthorized attack near the end of the Vietnam War.

As for your self defense "definition". It varies by jurisdiction, but I'm pretty certain that more than a few jurisdictions have no "retreat requirement" to claim self defense.

Not to mention numerous A-Team episodes that involved missions to foreign countries where neither American laws applied nor where American citizens were at risk of being killed by the A-Team.

Finally, the govt. would never have used lethal force in their pursuit of the A-Team. At least not gunfire against a moving vehicle. Law enforcement opens fire on moving vehicles so rarely that is makes national news when it happens.

Certainly not in heavily populated areas.

And finally, I believe that tires today don't explode when hit by bullets though on this I could be mistaken.

 

[auntiehill]

^In season 5, they were indeed accused of murder. In the opening two-parter, they are arrested, tried and CONVICTED of murdering Col. Morrison (the man who originally gave them the order to rob the bank of Hanoi). Hence, their fake "execution" and Stockwell's leverage against them, in order to get them to do missions for him.

And people DID die on The A Team, just ridiculously few, given the Roadrunner-cartoon nature of the show. General Fulbright (who was previously chasing them) dies, ON SCREEN, in "Sound of Thunder." Off screen, Ray Brenner died in "A Nice Place to Visit" (they attended his funeral), the sheriff's body is discovered in "Sheriffs of Rivertown" and a mobster is seen being thrown off a high-rise in "The Rabbit That Ate Las Vegas."

 

[Knight Templar]

^In season 5, they were indeed accused of murder. In the opening two-parter, they are arrested, tried and CONVICTED of murdering Col. Morrison (the man who originally gave them the order to rob the bank of Hanoi). Hence, their fake "execution" and Stockwell's leverage against them, in order to get them to do missions for him.

And people DID die on The A Team, just ridiculously few, given the Roadrunner-cartoon nature of the show. General Fulbright (who was previously chasing them) dies, ON SCREEN, in "Sound of Thunder." Off screen, Ray Brenner died in "A Nice Place to Visit" (they attended his funeral), the sheriff's body is discovered in "Sheriffs of Rivertown" and a mobster is seen being thrown off a high-rise in "The Rabbit That Ate Las Vegas."

They were only accused of murder at that point. Prior to that episode (the previous four seasons) the A-Team was never accused of murder. It was only when an extra witness was brought in for their trial in Season Five that they were accused of murder.

And when I say "no one was killed" I'm referring to the fact that the A-Team members themselves never actually killed anyone (except possibly the person that killed Fullbright, the wikipedia says yes, but I can't see it onscreen).

 

[auntiehill]

So, what exactly is your point? That you wish the show was entirely different than what it was? When I feel that way, I go watch something else.

 

[Knight Templar]

So, what exactly is your point? That you wish the show was entirely different than what it was? When I feel that way, I go watch something else.

I thought most people when they watched something on television were like people watching a football game and thought to themselves

"I could do a better job coaching than this guy".

 

[Christopher]

So, what exactly is your point? That you wish the show was entirely different than what it was? When I feel that way, I go watch something else.

Good one!

 

[Starkers]

^In season 5, they were indeed accused of murder. In the opening two-parter, they are arrested, tried and CONVICTED of murdering Col. Morrison (the man who originally gave them the order to rob the bank of Hanoi). Hence, their fake "execution" and Stockwell's leverage against them, in order to get them to do missions for him.

And people DID die on The A Team, just ridiculously few, given the Roadrunner-cartoon nature of the show. General Fulbright (who was previously chasing them) dies, ON SCREEN, in "Sound of Thunder." Off screen, Ray Brenner died in "A Nice Place to Visit" (they attended his funeral), the sheriff's body is discovered in "Sheriffs of Rivertown" and a mobster is seen being thrown off a high-rise in "The Rabbit That Ate Las Vegas."

They were only accused of murder at that point. Prior to that episode (the previous four seasons) the A-Team was never accused of murder. It was only when an extra witness was brought in for their trial in Season Five that they were accused of murder.

And when I say "no one was killed" I'm referring to the fact that the A-Team members themselves never actually killed anyone (except possibly the person that killed Fullbright, the wikipedia says yes, but I can't see it onscreen).

If that was the Vietnamese army officer then yes they did. They fired a rocket into the hut he was in as I recall (and to add he was looking out of the window at the time so it wasn't like he snuck out the back) I rememeber being hugely shocked when that happened

 

[auntiehill]

So, what exactly is your point? That you wish the show was entirely different than what it was? When I feel that way, I go watch something else.

I thought most people when they watched something on television were like people watching a football game and thought to themselves

"I could do a better job coaching than this guy".

No, that's what you think when you're incapable of enjoying anything. There's nothing wrong with being critical and seeing that things can be better, but to say you would've enjoyed it only if the entire nature of the show were completely opposite from what it was or even intended to be is just ridiculous.

The A-Team was stupid, silly, mindless entertainment. It was on in an early time slot and was not, in any way, supposed to be realistic, gritty or show bloodshed. It was designed, from the beginning, to be a live-action cartoon and nothing more. Saying you wished the A-Team was more gritty and realistic is like saying you wish Deadwood had more musical numbers. That's not what the show is about. If that's what you want, go watch another program. I watched it for the silliness, the characters' funny dialogue and for Dirk Benedict as Face. That's it. That's all it had. Was it stupid? Yes. It was supposed to be.

When I watch a show I really enjoy, like Deadwood or The Walking Dead, I think "I'm enjoying this. I can't wait to see more!" When I stop thinking that, I stop watching.

 

[Knight Templar]

Not all of us are alike^

 

[Kemaiku]

Oh, hell, Get Smart was a flat-out comedy and it had a hell of a body count, with lots of the killings played for laughs.

I know, the episode with Max guarding the Saudi prince for example. He kills three fellow agents in a few seconds, when the Chief calls moments later and he finds out, it's basically him shrugging his shoulders and a "Sorry Chief", no other consequences.

And that's hardly the first or last time that happens.

 

[inflatabledalek]

One odd thing about Fullbright is, as far as the US Army is concerned, he gets kidnapped by the A-Team (as all part of the skam to get an airplane on the mission they go on with him) and the next thing anyone hears of him is when he winds up dead in Vietnam. With the government (or rather Napoleon Solo) being so keen to stich them up for murder in the very next episode you'd have thought he'd have been the obvious one to frame them for.

Season 5 gets seriously, SERIOUSLY bad later on. There are a few good episodes--"Family Reunion," for one---but some are so bad, you'll feel the need to take a shower afterwards. "The Crystal Skull" is probably one of the worst of the series. And I'm a HUGE A-Team (and Dirk) fan, so I don't say that lightly.

Dirk's just one of the most charming men ever isn't he? Whenever I read a print interview with him I usually wind up shaking my head and going "What a tit" (especially some of the assumptions he seems to have made about new BSG without seemingly having seen any. A couple more female characters does not equal the males being weaker, Adama has bigger balls than any character on TV).

But when I see an interview with him though the pure undiluted coolness of the man just makes opinions I'd normally not agree with seem perfectly awesome. He could probably strangle a puppy live on TV and I'd still love him.

Mind, with some of the "Gay Team" comments atributed to him about any potential remake before the film because apparently "Real Men" aren't allowed on TV anyone does suggest he completely missed the huge homoerotic content of the show. I actually loved that season 4 episode where this was directly acknowledged with that neighbourhood watch guy just assuming they're all gay ("This fool aint saying what I think he's saying?!").

I thought the trial story kind of petered out at the end. Stockwell makes a big thing about how the Team has to escape from jail by themselves before he'll see through the deal... and then helps anyway (as Murdock and- sigh- Dishpan Man's plan wouldn't have worked without his help on getting the bodies off the island). I'd totally forgotten they're moved to Langley as well, meaning just about everything in the original narration is no longer true of the show bar it being about a group called The A Team.

And then the American football episode, bar the line about East Berlin being east of West Berlin, was atrocious.

 

[Forbin]

Now I wanna see a musical version of Deadwood!!

 

[auntiehill]

And then the American football episode, bar the line about East Berlin being east of West Berlin, was atrocious.

Dear God, it really was .Most of season 5 sucked ASS. But, I will admit liking the melodrama of "Family Reunion" and even parts of "Without Reservations."

Now I wanna see a musical version of Deadwood!!

I knew someone would say that. Does paint an "interesting" mental picture, though, doesn't it?