A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

[Brendan Moody]

^^I know; just reiterating it for those who don't follow the thread as obsessively as I do.

Once casting for season five is underway and we find out which new characters from Feast/Dance are (and more likely aren't) being cast, it'll be more clear how much and how fast they're condensing the story. I almost hope they're doing something radical, like dropping Aegon and having Dany be the one to invade in season five. What works about the slower pace of Feast and Dance would never translate to TV anyway, so why not push the boat out?

 

[Dream]

Instead talking about The Winds of Winter, fan should be talking about the books AFTER that. A Dream of Spring and maybe more books? Those books will be the real problem.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

^^I know; just reiterating it for those who don't follow the thread as obsessively as I do.

Ah, I see. I thought you might have done some thread-skipping. Carry on.

Instead talking about The Winds of Winter, fan should be talking about the books AFTER that. Those books will be the reason problem.

Hopefully it'll just be one book after Winds. There's not a hope in hell of the final book being published before the show ends, but even Winds could easily end up on screen, albeit perhaps in heavily modified form, before it's published.

 

[Relayer1]

Martin uses a lot of archaic terms for armour, clothing, ship types etc., so obviously knows his subject, but there are a handful of terms he uses that seem out of place and jar with me when they occur. Can anyone advise me if they are in common use in the U.S. ?

Coz (cousin - I know it's in Shakespeare, but I can't recall hearing it used over here).
Bulled (as in pushed or forced).
Soldier Pines (trees)

 

[Brendan Moody]

"Coz" is occasionally heard in the contemporary US, but I imagine Martin's usage is drawn from Shakespeare.

I can't recall ever having heard of the verb "to bull," but it's in US dictionaries without any notation on being rare or archaic.

"Soldier pines" is Martin's invention, like many of the tree names.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I've heard "coz" in quite a few movies and TV shows. I've also heard the term to "bull your way through" something in real life.

 

[Relayer1]

They appear to be Martins own (coz excepted) rather than Americanism's that have 'snuck in' then. I'm pleased, because without using old English, he seems to have tried hard to write without modern inflections.

 

[Venardhi]

He does have some language from "old-ish" English. One of the more stand-out examples being "nuncle" which he started using suddenly in the 4th book for some reason.

 

[Tyberius]

I figured "soldier pine" was a thinly branched pine. One that was easily climbable as opposed to one with small brambly branches.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

From an interview with Isaac Hempstead-Wright (Bran) in GQ:

GQ: Do you guys worry about catching up with George R.R. Martin’s books?
That’s interesting you say that because, in season four actually, a lot of the storylines are starting to be either sped up or slowed down and some people are nearly at the end of their storyline and others are way before. I guess it’s George’s biggest fear, when the show catches up to him, which it inevitably will unless he gets the next book out. But I don’t think we’re particularly worried about it because David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] know the ending. In a sense, we follow David and Dan rather than the books. It’s inevitable that things are going to get left out. In condensing the books, different storylines are made differently. Rather than the books, it’s definitely the scripts and the producers for us.

 

[DevilEyes]

^^I know; just reiterating it for those who don't follow the thread as obsessively as I do.

Once casting for season five is underway and we find out which new characters from Feast/Dance are (and more likely aren't) being cast, it'll be more clear how much and how fast they're condensing the story. I almost hope they're doing something radical, like dropping Aegon and having Dany be the one to invade in season five. What works about the slower pace of Feast and Dance would never translate to TV anyway, so why not push the boat out?

Urgh. No.

Fortunately, they aren't going to do something that stupid just because a portion of audience can't wait to see Dany and her DRAAAGONS invade Westeros. The fact that they are doing the Meereen story with Daario and Missandei as regulars for season 5, and with season 4 only going as far as

Spoiler: what we know from the casting and the interviews

Dany chaining her dragons, after Hazzea's dad appears late in the season

, lays that to rest.

If the TV show outstrips the books, I will watch the story unfold on the screen and then read the books when they are available.

I like how the trailers are revealing parts of the story while making viewers think something else. The 1st trailer makes it look like Dany is talking about the Lannisters and the 2nd one makes you think that Tyrion is talking about Jon's desire for justice.

And they also make it seem that Jon is talking about Robb and the betrayal by the Boltons, when actually he is talking about the Old Bear.

Overall, the trailers make the upcoming season look awesome, and very faithful to the books, minus some changes that follow from season 3 (Yara) or could have been or even were predicted because of the circumstances (lots of people had guessed that Bronn would take the place of Ilyn Payne as Jaime's sparring partner). I just hope the actual season lives up to the trailers.

I'm fairly confident we'll get The Winds of Winter before the show overtakes the books.

I think there's a very good chance the show will get into at least some material, if not a whole lot of it, from Winds before it's published. It looks like they're going to massively condense and speed through Feast and Dance. I think Dany will be in Westeros by season 5.

Nope. She won't. See above.

It's probably just the last book that might get passed over. If that does happen, I'll wait to read the book before I watch the end of the show.

That could be a long wait. If GRRM takes five or six years to get each of the sixth and seventh books out that would lead to the final book being published sometime between 2021 and 2023, while the show will end in 2018 if it runs for eight seasons.

There's no reason for that to happen. It took him so long to finish Feast and Dance because he had to scrap the 5 year gap and to deal with the Meerenese knot. None of this is the case now.

I think that they may borrow some minor stuff from tWoW - the parts GRRM has already written - for some characters in season 5; and they may do one of the two big battles that are going to happen in WoW, but I can't see them doing both of them in season 5. If nothing else, than for budgetary reasons.

If WoW is published in 2015, or early in 2016, the show will not overtake the books with tWoW, but we must accept the high probability that it will be finished before aDoS is published. That doesn't mean that D&D will not get to read GRRM's manuscripts before they do the scripts.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Nope. She won't. See above.

I'm not saying she'll be in Westeros as season 5 starts, but rather that she'll get there by the end of the season, or perhaps the season ends with her looking upon the shores of Westeros for the first time. At any rate, I think she'll be there by season 6 at the latest. I think they're going to deviate more and more from the books, condensing things and really hitting the accelerator. Of course I could turn out to be wrong.

There's no reason for that to happen. It took him so long to finish Feast and Dance because he had to scrap the 5 year gap and to deal with the Meerenese knot. None of this is the case now.

A lot of people have been telling themselves that, but it's becoming apparent that he just doesn't have the juice left to deliver the final two books in three- or even four-year turnarounds apiece. If Winds is published before 2016 I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not expecting it. That'll be a five-year gap between Dance and Winds. Another five-year gap would mean the publication of Dream in 2021.

If WoW is published in 2015, or early in 2016, the show will not overtake the books with tWoW

Publication in late 2015 or in 2016 would put at least some of Winds on screen before it's published. I think it'll be a pretty big chunk of it, too.

...but we must accept the high probability that it will be finished before aDoS is published. That doesn't mean that D&D will not get to read GRRM's manuscripts before they do the scripts.

Agreed.

 

[DevilEyes]

Nope. She won't. See above.

I'm not saying she'll be in Westeros as season 5 starts, but rather that she'll get there by the end of the season, or perhaps the season ends with her looking upon the shores of Westeros for the first time. At any rate, I think she'll be there by season 6 at the latest. I think they're going to deviate more and more from the books, condensing things and really hitting the accelerator. Of course I could turn out to be wrong.

There's no reason for that to happen. It took him so long to finish Feast and Dance because he had to scrap the 5 year gap and to deal with the Meerenese knot. None of this is the case now.

A lot of people have been telling themselves that, but it's becoming apparent that he just doesn't have the juice left to deliver the final two books in three- or even four-year turnarounds apiece. If Winds is published before 2016 I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not expecting it. That'll be a five-year gap between Dance and Winds. Another five-year gap would mean the publication of Dream in 2021.

If WoW is published in 2015, or early in 2016, the show will not overtake the books with tWoW

Publication in late 2015 or in 2016 would put at least some of Winds on screen before it's published. I think it'll be a pretty big chunk of it, too.

...but we must accept the high probability that it will be finished before aDoS is published. That doesn't mean that D&D will not get to read GRRM's manuscripts before they do the scripts.

Agreed.

The only characters who could get a bit more of their tWoW story in season 5 are Sansa, Bran and maybe Brienne/Jaime, since they seem to be speeding up her storyline, and his will eventually be tied to hers. But Jon and the people at the Wall, Cersei and the King's Landing, Theon, Dany and those around her, Tyrion have a lot of stuff and storylines that make sense as an arc for one season. Maybe Stannis, Tyrion and Dany get a little bit from their early tWoW chapters. I do think they will move at least one of the two big battles that should happen early in tWoW towards the end of season 5. But some of the other things from AFFC/ADWD may get moved around or delayed until season 6.

Also, I wonder when they will start filling out the details about the background - Rhaegar, Lyanna, RR etc. It's been speculated in the fandom that they may use Bran and his greenseeing to cover some of that.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

The one thing you have to keep in mind is this, how long will HBO actually allow GoT to continue. Because as episodes go by, it just becomes more and more expensive to produce. Hell, they may end it after 7 seasons and do a wrap up movie. No where does it say that HBO has to produce the entirety of Games of Thrones.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

It will become more expensive, but they'll probably want to run it for the full eight seasons envisioned by D&D so that they have it as an anchor while their slate of drama shows undergoes big changes over the next few years. Of course there are cast contracts to be renegotiated for that to happen, though.

 

[DevilEyes]

The one thing you have to keep in mind is this, how long will HBO actually allow GoT to continue. Because as episodes go by, it just becomes more and more expensive to produce. Hell, they may end it after 7 seasons and do a wrap up movie. No where does it say that HBO has to produce the entirety of Games of Thrones.

It's one of their most popular shows, why would they want to give it up? If it was less successful, they could be thinking about axing it, but as it is, they'll want to milk that cow for what it's worth. There was some talk a while ago about them talking with GRRM about buying the rights to adapt Dunk and Egg. (They would presumably do it after GoT is finished, and it would also cost less, so why not?)

 

[CaptainCanada]

Hell, they may end it after 7 seasons and do a wrap up movie. No where does it say that HBO has to produce the entirety of Games of Thrones.

HBO would say that. It's their highest-rated program, and it would look bad for them to shunt the climax off into theaters, as it would irritate their subscribers.

As far as the book/season thing goes, possibly Bran and Davos will need material from Book 6 in Season 5, but everybody else should probably be okay. Season 6 will be Book 6 material for almost everybody from the get-go, and the few that still have some Books 4/5 left over will get there.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I think they'll bring some of the climatic moments delayed to the first part of Winds forward to the end of season 5.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I think that either the Battle of Ice or the Battle of Fire will be in season 5; the latter might make more sense, since Jon's assassination would be a fine ending (in fact, in some ways that works better, if people don't know what actually happened to Stannis and co.).

 

[DarthPipes]

Fortunately, they aren't going to do something that stupid just because a portion of audience can't wait to see Dany and her DRAAAGONS invade Westeros. The fact that they are doing the Meereen story with Daario and Missandei as regulars for season 5, and with season 4 only going as far as

I'm curious how non-book fans of the show will respond to Dany spending the next two seasons twiddling her thumbs in Meereen and not coming anywhere close to Westeros. Not to mention the lack of other things.