A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
'Relativity' is something I only began to enjoy having watched it a few times now. When I first saw it years ago I rejected it - more time-travelling, technobabbling rubbish that made no sense. Years later, during a rewatch, despite having had such negative memories about it I actually quite enjoyed it. I showed it to a friend a few weeks later, and again found it funny.
Yes, I do have to sort of switch my brain off, and it is all a bit silly, but since Janeway plays it up as silly I was halfway there. So I give it a 4/5.
'Relativity' is something I only began to enjoy having watched it a few times now. When I first saw it years ago I rejected it - more time-travelling, technobabbling rubbish that made no sense. Years later, during a rewatch, despite having had such negative memories about it I actually quite enjoyed it. I showed it to a friend a few weeks later, and again found it funny.
Yes, I do have to sort of switch my brain off, and it is all a bit silly, but since Janeway plays it up as silly I was halfway there. So I give it a 4/5.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Warhead (**½)
Kim gets to be captain for a few hours and the first thing he does is bring a bomb onboard so that he can get revenge on this crew that is constantly being condescending towards him. It turns out that the bomb thinks it is a person and it is very upset to learn that it is a bomb because it will no longer be able to taste the delicious flavours of Walkers crisps. Then the bomb takes over Doctor Shmully, but when it realises that it is in a holographic body and still cannot eat the sublime new Walkers Builder's Breakfast flavour crisps it throws a strop and starts shouting a lot. This is annoying.
Janeway is a very traditional captain so she likes Walkers Ready Salted flavour, and she is also not willing to give in to the demands of a talking bomb. Captain Kirk (who adored Walkers Smokey Bacon) would have just talked the bomb to death with a logical paradox, but Janeway only skimmed TOS when it was on TV and can only remember parts of that episode with the furry things. However, Kim (Walkers Prawn Cocktail) is a bit of a lonely nerd so has every episode of TOS stored twice on his computer, in both production and air-date order. He remembered that you are supposed to talk a bomb to death and not waste time on some technobabble solution to the problem, so he reasons with the bomb and it agrees to kill itself and its whole race.
I don't normally give out points for trying, but part of the agreement with my new sponsors (Walkers crisps) is that I must try to be more positive towards the episodes.
Warhead (**½)
Kim gets to be captain for a few hours and the first thing he does is bring a bomb onboard so that he can get revenge on this crew that is constantly being condescending towards him. It turns out that the bomb thinks it is a person and it is very upset to learn that it is a bomb because it will no longer be able to taste the delicious flavours of Walkers crisps. Then the bomb takes over Doctor Shmully, but when it realises that it is in a holographic body and still cannot eat the sublime new Walkers Builder's Breakfast flavour crisps it throws a strop and starts shouting a lot. This is annoying.
Janeway is a very traditional captain so she likes Walkers Ready Salted flavour, and she is also not willing to give in to the demands of a talking bomb. Captain Kirk (who adored Walkers Smokey Bacon) would have just talked the bomb to death with a logical paradox, but Janeway only skimmed TOS when it was on TV and can only remember parts of that episode with the furry things. However, Kim (Walkers Prawn Cocktail) is a bit of a lonely nerd so has every episode of TOS stored twice on his computer, in both production and air-date order. He remembered that you are supposed to talk a bomb to death and not waste time on some technobabble solution to the problem, so he reasons with the bomb and it agrees to kill itself and its whole race.
I don't normally give out points for trying, but part of the agreement with my new sponsors (Walkers crisps) is that I must try to be more positive towards the episodes.
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
On to Equinox!
On to Equinox!
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
All I have of 'Warhead' is a vague recollection of a strange, silly episode that I didn't like much, and didn't really stick in my head thereafter.
All I have of 'Warhead' is a vague recollection of a strange, silly episode that I didn't like much, and didn't really stick in my head thereafter.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
You all made me watch my first Voyager episode in years.
Well, "Warhead" starts off interestingly enough. It's an intriguing dilemma and I liked Kim's portrayal. But then, the episode just floats along, rather directionless, as if they were trying to stretch their material.
I found myself thinking about how other (better) Sci-Fi shows would have handled the premise (e.g. Doctor Who or Blake's 7). After the trader's ship was blown up I lost interest and didn't finish the episode.
So while I was pleasantly suprised in the beginning, the episode reminded me why I originally stopped watching Voyager sometime during season 5. They would come up with interesting ideas and premises but execute them in a lacklustre fashion and nothing much would come of it. Frustrating.
You all made me watch my first Voyager episode in years.
Well, "Warhead" starts off interestingly enough. It's an intriguing dilemma and I liked Kim's portrayal. But then, the episode just floats along, rather directionless, as if they were trying to stretch their material.
I found myself thinking about how other (better) Sci-Fi shows would have handled the premise (e.g. Doctor Who or Blake's 7). After the trader's ship was blown up I lost interest and didn't finish the episode.
So while I was pleasantly suprised in the beginning, the episode reminded me why I originally stopped watching Voyager sometime during season 5. They would come up with interesting ideas and premises but execute them in a lacklustre fashion and nothing much would come of it. Frustrating.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Equinox (****)
Equinox does many things right and it has a great concept; Voyager comes across the ship she could have been had things gone a little differently at the start. They also throw in a great moral dilemma as Ransom's desire to get his crew home safe has led him to commit murder upon hundreds of alien beings. This is a great use of Voyager's premise and the best concept for an episode since... probably season 1 or 2.
So why only four stars? I have never liked how Ransom is portrayed, it makes me think of Don Corleone being played by Christopher Walken. Actually, that sounds pretty cool.
Nonetheless, that performance never worked for me and the whole episode his voice sounds like as if it was looped in post-production. Then there's the relationship between B'Elanna and Burke which I thought added little to the episode while making B'Elanna look a bit foolish. Maybe that will come into focus in the second part, I can't remember. The end also gets a bit technobabbleish with Kim shouting about the shields being at certain percentage points while B'Elanna and Tuvok discuss how power relays have been disconnected from the field emitter. The episode also feels a bit rushed, particularly towards the end.
While watching it I had some ideas of what I would have done differently (and yes, I did steal some of them from BSG's Pegasus) but I'll get into that when I write up my opinions on the season tomorrow.
For now the season is over, go in peace to love and serve the Lord.
Equinox (****)
Equinox does many things right and it has a great concept; Voyager comes across the ship she could have been had things gone a little differently at the start. They also throw in a great moral dilemma as Ransom's desire to get his crew home safe has led him to commit murder upon hundreds of alien beings. This is a great use of Voyager's premise and the best concept for an episode since... probably season 1 or 2.
So why only four stars? I have never liked how Ransom is portrayed, it makes me think of Don Corleone being played by Christopher Walken. Actually, that sounds pretty cool.
Nonetheless, that performance never worked for me and the whole episode his voice sounds like as if it was looped in post-production. Then there's the relationship between B'Elanna and Burke which I thought added little to the episode while making B'Elanna look a bit foolish. Maybe that will come into focus in the second part, I can't remember. The end also gets a bit technobabbleish with Kim shouting about the shields being at certain percentage points while B'Elanna and Tuvok discuss how power relays have been disconnected from the field emitter. The episode also feels a bit rushed, particularly towards the end.While watching it I had some ideas of what I would have done differently (and yes, I did steal some of them from BSG's Pegasus) but I'll get into that when I write up my opinions on the season tomorrow.
For now the season is over, go in peace to love and serve the Lord.
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
psst. . . hey, I think you've got your Relativity and your Equinox *confused*
psst. . . hey, I think you've got your Relativity and your Equinox *confused*
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Part I of Equinox gets 3 stars out of 4 stars from me.
It isn't VOY's best season finale. It isn't its worse. It's an intriguing hour but it mostly just serves as set-up via the introduction of various Equinox crewmen, why the aliens are attacking, how the ship ended up in the Delta Quadrant, the different approachs to command--but that is exactly what a season finale should do. It also closed out a wildly erratic season of quality on a fairly strong note.
We get the debut of my favorite B'elanna hairdo-it was nice she didn't se a relaxer for season six. I didn't care for the Kim "Turkey Platter" line--very cringe-worthy.
Part I of Equinox gets 3 stars out of 4 stars from me.
It isn't VOY's best season finale. It isn't its worse. It's an intriguing hour but it mostly just serves as set-up via the introduction of various Equinox crewmen, why the aliens are attacking, how the ship ended up in the Delta Quadrant, the different approachs to command--but that is exactly what a season finale should do. It also closed out a wildly erratic season of quality on a fairly strong note.
We get the debut of my favorite B'elanna hairdo-it was nice she didn't se a relaxer for season six. I didn't care for the Kim "Turkey Platter" line--very cringe-worthy.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I don't think so. I think our boi GodBen got it right this time around!
psst. . . hey, I think you've got your Relativity and your Equinox *confused*
I don't think so. I think our boi GodBen got it right this time around!
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Except the Equinox's captain is Captain Ransom, while the time ship captain is Captain Braxton.
Except the Equinox's captain is Captain Ransom, while the time ship captain is Captain Braxton.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Oh yes. GodBen, get it right! I demand that you edit your post!
Otherwise we may think that your reviews started with good potential, but you ended up missing lot of opportunities. And let's not even go to the continuity issues.
Oh yes. GodBen, get it right! I demand that you edit your post!
Otherwise we may think that your reviews started with good potential, but you ended up missing lot of opportunities. And let's not even go to the continuity issues.
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I've fixed it now.
Bugger, all that crack has rotted my brain.
I really jumped the shark about a month ago when I used my 39th smiley having previously stating I only had 38 at my disposal. I could have drawn some myself but I never stated it in the thread.Otherwise we may think that your reviews started with good potential, but you ended up missing lot of opportunities. And let's not even go to the continuity issues.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Season 5 Review
(Dark Frontier is counted as one episode.) This was an odd season and if I was to judge it by eye I'd say that the second half of the season looks weaker than the first half, but the trendline says otherwise. Apparently the season's quality increased very slightly in the second half but by very little, it's the most consistent season so far. Unfortunately it is also a very average season with most scores in the 4-6 region, but more on that in a minute. The average score for this season was 4.92.
I don't know how to read this one, but if I was forced to assign meaning to this mess of a graph I would say that there is two bell-curves here with one centred around 4-5 and another smaller one around 7-8. There's also two zero scores completely removed from the rest of the scores. I considered almost one third of the episodes this season to be "meh" and that is what held the season back for me.
12 episodes were below average, 5 were average and 8 were above average.
Best episode: Timeless
Worst episode: The Fight
The Writers
We have two new staff writers this season, Michael Taylor will be staying with the show until the end while Nick Sagan will only be around for season five but will be involved in writing or co-writing 5 episodes and that's just enough for me to include him in the graphs.
Braga lowers his output this season to just 5 episodes but they were mostly good ones and he earns a score of 6.4. His writing partner Joe Menosky also does well but The Fight lowers his score to 6 from 8 episodes. Micheal Taylor's debut season isn't spectacular but he holds his own with a score of 5.125 from 8 episodes. Biller recovers from being the worst writer last season to achieve an average score of 5 from 4 episodes. After Bryan Fuller's fantastic first season he came crashing down to Earth this year with a score of 4.286 from 7 episodes. Nick Sagan didn't make much of an impression beyond writing the awful In the Flesh, his score is 3.2 from 5 episodes. Jeri Taylor only wrote one episode, her final one, so her score is 3.
This is how the writers stand after four seasons. Menosky and Braga's partnership really seems to work for the show, their average scores are 5.56 and 5.5 respectively, if they keep this up next year there is a real chance they could overtake Piller as the shows best writers. Even though Fuller had a poor season he is still being held up by how fantastic he was in season 4, his average is now 5.545. Biller's score is still struggling at 4.9, he'll need to do better if he wants to get back above 5. Jeri Taylor's final episode drags her down a bit to finish her run on Voyager with a score of 4.786 out of 14 episodes. But Lisa Klink should be happy because Nick Sagan has replaced her as my least favourite writer on the show. Sorry Nick, I love your dad but you did force In the Flesh upon me.
What Would GodBen Do?
Jeri Taylor has just left the show and Rick Berman decides to hire me as head staff writer because he thinks Braga is a bit of a ponce. How would I have done things differently?
As I said after watching Night, I would have liked for that concept to have played out over several episodes; two episodes about the crew trying to deal with being in an endless empty void and a final episode dealing with the Malon and the wormhole. The concept of B'Elanna's story in Extreme Risk is good but mismanaged and could have played out in one of these Night episodes rather than being paired with the Malon/Delta Flyer story.
Speaking of the Delta Flyer, it is only natural that Voyager would want a large shuttle given their situation, but I wish they had used the concept of the Aero-shuttle that we discussed earlier in this thread. Not only would it have been cool to see the ship detach from the bottom of Voyager, I also think it was a better looking ship than the flyer which is a rather dull looking lump.
Anyway, the idea I had yesterday while watching Equinox was that the whole season should have been used to foreshadow the appearance of the Equinox in the finale, much like how the Dominion were foreshadowed before their appearance in the season 2 finale of DS9. After Timeless Voyager should have started to hear rumours of another ship claiming to be from the Federation and Voyager could have kept a look out for them on their journey. This could also have played into Course: Oblivion by having the real Voyager detect what seems to be another Federation starship and they assume it is the Equinox only to find clumps of biomemetic goo as in the original. I thought that Equinox itself felt somewhat rushed and could have used the feature-lenght treatment far better than Dark Frontier.
One of the things I enjoyed about nuBSG is that when they come across the Battlestar Pegasus the Pegasus is the bigger ship with the higher ranking officer aboard, it made Adama's decision to stand up to Cain more powerful. If Ransom had been the one in the more powerful ship and he ordered Janeway to enhance his warp drive in the same way as he did with the Equinox then it would have made Janeway's decision to stand against him stronger. It could have had the impact that Insurrection failed to have.
Statistics
Shuttles Lost: 14
Torpedoes: 53/38
Harry Deaths: 3
Season 1 Average: 5.867
Season 2 Average: 4.692
Season 3 Average: 4.269
Season 4 Average: 5.231
Season 5 Average: 4.92
Overall Average (118 episodes): 4.915
In Summation
For all the talk I heard about how great season 5 is, I really was not impressed. It felt like a throwback to seasons 2 and 3; a lot of average episodes with a small number of good and bad episodes. My favourite seasons of Voyager so far have been 1 and 4, and when you look at the graphs you can see that those were the two most uneven seasons, the majority of episodes were either good or bad with very few in the middle. I've read on this board that season 6 is also very uneven and if that is the case I might prefer that to season 5's string of average episodes.
Season 5 Review
(Dark Frontier is counted as one episode.) This was an odd season and if I was to judge it by eye I'd say that the second half of the season looks weaker than the first half, but the trendline says otherwise. Apparently the season's quality increased very slightly in the second half but by very little, it's the most consistent season so far. Unfortunately it is also a very average season with most scores in the 4-6 region, but more on that in a minute. The average score for this season was 4.92.
I don't know how to read this one, but if I was forced to assign meaning to this mess of a graph I would say that there is two bell-curves here with one centred around 4-5 and another smaller one around 7-8. There's also two zero scores completely removed from the rest of the scores. I considered almost one third of the episodes this season to be "meh" and that is what held the season back for me.
12 episodes were below average, 5 were average and 8 were above average.
Best episode: Timeless
Worst episode: The Fight
The Writers
We have two new staff writers this season, Michael Taylor will be staying with the show until the end while Nick Sagan will only be around for season five but will be involved in writing or co-writing 5 episodes and that's just enough for me to include him in the graphs.
Braga lowers his output this season to just 5 episodes but they were mostly good ones and he earns a score of 6.4. His writing partner Joe Menosky also does well but The Fight lowers his score to 6 from 8 episodes. Micheal Taylor's debut season isn't spectacular but he holds his own with a score of 5.125 from 8 episodes. Biller recovers from being the worst writer last season to achieve an average score of 5 from 4 episodes. After Bryan Fuller's fantastic first season he came crashing down to Earth this year with a score of 4.286 from 7 episodes. Nick Sagan didn't make much of an impression beyond writing the awful In the Flesh, his score is 3.2 from 5 episodes. Jeri Taylor only wrote one episode, her final one, so her score is 3.
This is how the writers stand after four seasons. Menosky and Braga's partnership really seems to work for the show, their average scores are 5.56 and 5.5 respectively, if they keep this up next year there is a real chance they could overtake Piller as the shows best writers. Even though Fuller had a poor season he is still being held up by how fantastic he was in season 4, his average is now 5.545. Biller's score is still struggling at 4.9, he'll need to do better if he wants to get back above 5. Jeri Taylor's final episode drags her down a bit to finish her run on Voyager with a score of 4.786 out of 14 episodes. But Lisa Klink should be happy because Nick Sagan has replaced her as my least favourite writer on the show. Sorry Nick, I love your dad but you did force In the Flesh upon me.
What Would GodBen Do?
Jeri Taylor has just left the show and Rick Berman decides to hire me as head staff writer because he thinks Braga is a bit of a ponce. How would I have done things differently?
As I said after watching Night, I would have liked for that concept to have played out over several episodes; two episodes about the crew trying to deal with being in an endless empty void and a final episode dealing with the Malon and the wormhole. The concept of B'Elanna's story in Extreme Risk is good but mismanaged and could have played out in one of these Night episodes rather than being paired with the Malon/Delta Flyer story.
Speaking of the Delta Flyer, it is only natural that Voyager would want a large shuttle given their situation, but I wish they had used the concept of the Aero-shuttle that we discussed earlier in this thread. Not only would it have been cool to see the ship detach from the bottom of Voyager, I also think it was a better looking ship than the flyer which is a rather dull looking lump.
Anyway, the idea I had yesterday while watching Equinox was that the whole season should have been used to foreshadow the appearance of the Equinox in the finale, much like how the Dominion were foreshadowed before their appearance in the season 2 finale of DS9. After Timeless Voyager should have started to hear rumours of another ship claiming to be from the Federation and Voyager could have kept a look out for them on their journey. This could also have played into Course: Oblivion by having the real Voyager detect what seems to be another Federation starship and they assume it is the Equinox only to find clumps of biomemetic goo as in the original. I thought that Equinox itself felt somewhat rushed and could have used the feature-lenght treatment far better than Dark Frontier.
One of the things I enjoyed about nuBSG is that when they come across the Battlestar Pegasus the Pegasus is the bigger ship with the higher ranking officer aboard, it made Adama's decision to stand up to Cain more powerful. If Ransom had been the one in the more powerful ship and he ordered Janeway to enhance his warp drive in the same way as he did with the Equinox then it would have made Janeway's decision to stand against him stronger. It could have had the impact that Insurrection failed to have.
Statistics
Shuttles Lost: 14
Torpedoes: 53/38
Harry Deaths: 3
Season 1 Average: 5.867
Season 2 Average: 4.692
Season 3 Average: 4.269
Season 4 Average: 5.231
Season 5 Average: 4.92
Overall Average (118 episodes): 4.915
In Summation
For all the talk I heard about how great season 5 is, I really was not impressed. It felt like a throwback to seasons 2 and 3; a lot of average episodes with a small number of good and bad episodes. My favourite seasons of Voyager so far have been 1 and 4, and when you look at the graphs you can see that those were the two most uneven seasons, the majority of episodes were either good or bad with very few in the middle. I've read on this board that season 6 is also very uneven and if that is the case I might prefer that to season 5's string of average episodes.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Well, you just took me back 30 years...
John Savage starred with Christopher Walken and Robert DeNiro in "The Deer Hunter."
I'll have to rent that--it's been awhile.
Well, you just took me back 30 years...
John Savage starred with Christopher Walken and Robert DeNiro in "The Deer Hunter."
I'll have to rent that--it's been awhile.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
When I saw Night recently, it kind of reminded me of the Delphic Expanse. They definitely could have fleshed it out a bit better to really play up the loneliness aspect.
I also agree about playing up the "other federation ship" angle for a couple of episodes. It would be cool foreshadowing.
I don't think the Delta Flyer needed to be the aero shuttle. It would have been nice if it came out of where the Aero Shuttle was supposed to be (they could say that the aero shuttle was never included like it was supposed to be), but I do like that it's something different that they built along the way.
When I saw Night recently, it kind of reminded me of the Delphic Expanse. They definitely could have fleshed it out a bit better to really play up the loneliness aspect.
I also agree about playing up the "other federation ship" angle for a couple of episodes. It would be cool foreshadowing.
I don't think the Delta Flyer needed to be the aero shuttle. It would have been nice if it came out of where the Aero Shuttle was supposed to be (they could say that the aero shuttle was never included like it was supposed to be), but I do like that it's something different that they built along the way.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Aww. But as long as you provide enjoyable reviews, I don't care such a minor flaw concerning numbers. It is not relevant around here.
I really jumped the shark about a month ago when I used my 39th smiley having previously stating I only had 38 at my disposal. I could have drawn some myself but I never stated it in the thread.Otherwise we may think that your reviews started with good potential, but you ended up missing lot of opportunities. And let's not even go to the continuity issues.
Aww. But as long as you provide enjoyable reviews, I don't care such a minor flaw concerning numbers. It is not relevant around here.
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