A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Just catching up but I still enjoy reading the reviews. I guess the only thing I have to contribute right now is I find The Fight to be Voyager's Masks. For me, I loved both episodes because of the eerie sense and just the atmosphere and not really knowing what is going on. Many others, however, consider these two episodes for their respective series' to be the worst episodes ever made for television. I guess I'm just one of those people.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Just catching up but I still enjoy reading the reviews. I guess the only thing I have to contribute right now is I find The Fight to be Voyager's Masks. For me, I loved both episodes because of the eerie sense and just the atmosphere and not really knowing what is going on. Many others, however, consider these two episodes for their respective series' to be the worst episodes ever made for television. I guess I'm just one of those people.

Yay, another one!

I admit that I had to watch "The Fight" twice before I really got the full picture what was going on, because the timeline, how the story goes on, is not linear. The dissimilarity of it makes me like it, not to mention that for me "anomaly of the week" kind of stories are the best ones.


Juggernaut is one of my favs as well. And this episode is also "a grower" for me (meaning that first I didn't like it very much, but with time it has become one of my favs). So therefore, in GodBen's scale (there are lots of different scales in this thread), I would give the episode ****.

 

[CaptJamesScott]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I had a similar experience with Enterprise. I watched the first season religiously when it came out....and then I stopped watching it. I felt it was even more bland than Voyager at times. But then in 2005 when the show was canceled, I went back and watched every episode, and realized, that this may be the last Star Trek show ever put on TV. So I quickly gained a whole new respect and appreciation for Enterprise. It's still one of my least favorite series, but its still Star Trek.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I had a similar experience with Enterprise. I watched the first season religiously when it came out....and then I stopped watching it. I felt it was even more bland than Voyager at times. But then in 2005 when the show was canceled, I went back and watched every episode, and realized, that this may be the last Star Trek show ever put on TV. So I quickly gained a whole new respect and appreciation for Enterprise. It's still one of my least favorite series, but its still Star Trek.

I think I may have few more miles before I get to that point. I admit that I have some major prejudice against Enterprise, but perhaps one day I will overcome them.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Juggernaut: this episode had some decent bits but it needed a tighter character focus - what did they actually need Chakotay and Neelix on the away mission for? - just send in Torres and the Malon leader guy. This could have been a really good episode for B'Elanna, but as it was it was just OK. Also, what was all the stuff about suddenly finding a star and being able to send the Malon ship into it at impulse so very quickly? I can handle travelling at the speed of plot most of the time (like the episode of DS9 "Dax" where Odo seemingly went from another solar system to the station in about an hour), but this just seemed silly.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Naah. Finding a star was not a problem for me at all. And I rather liked that Neelix and Chakotay were involved in the mission.

 

[Count Zero]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I admit that I have some major prejudice against Enterprise, but perhaps one day I will overcome them.

Just out of curiosity: what prejudices would that be?

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Someone to Watch Over Me (***½)

This is the first episode since Latent Image (excluding Course: Oblivion because it wasn't about the real Voyager) where the ship or a crewmember is not placed in peril during some point in the episode, and boy was I waiting for this. Putting the ship in danger is good when done in moderation, but some of the action scenes in this recent string of episodes have been especially forced, such as at the end of Gravity or The Disease. In contrast, Someone to Watch Over Me is completely character driven, there's not even a single explosion!

I enjoyed the scenes between Shmully and Seven, the two of them displayed great chemistry throughout the episode, and while I don't share Shmully's infatuation with Seven I can certainly buy into him falling for her. The problem I have with this story is that the episode ends with the status quo intact; Seven chickens out of continuing her search for a man and Shmully chickens out of telling her about the feelings he has developed for her. I was okay with that back when I first saw the episode because I thought something might come of this in the future, but the only pay-off this episode brings is a cheap joke in the penultimate episode.

Then you have the b-plot where Neelix is tasked with taking care of an ambassador, I did not care for this at all. Not only was the ambassador's gluttony overdone, but to me this is a rehash of Troi having to deal with the gluttonous ambassador in TNG's Liaisons. The episode did not need this and I feel it detracted from the otherwise good Shmully/Seven story.

But what this episode really needed was a kickin' piano duet between Seven and Shmully, it would have blown everyone's mind.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

If there was one thing I really hated about Voyager it was the over-reliance on action and putting the ship in jeopordy. One thing I loved about both TNG and DS9 was that if there was an action sequence, it was an event. It was moderate, and it was worth the wait. Action sequences in voyager happened almost every week and on DVD you really start to notice how repetitive things get.

That's why I like episodes like Someone to watch Over me. It's a character piece and while there is some silly humor, it doesn't stray away too much from what the show was trying to get. It's a great episode and probably season 5's best episode.

 

[Seven of Five]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I love 'Someone to Watch Over Me,' but I'm a bit of a sap! The Doc and Seven have brilliant chemistry - their duet is delightful. The lighter tone throughout the episode works a treat after a series of relentless episodes. I realise that there was no proper follow-up, but I like to think 'Schmullus' was deeply affected by his time with Seven in this episode.

Harry probing Seven about who was on her 'date list,' (not him), and then her first date ending in disaster - all very nice. The B-plot wasn't too bad either - Neelix was a bit out of his depth, which was comical, but the other guy he was looking after was a bit of a jerk.

4.5/5 for me. Best episode in a while.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Juggernaut (**)

TUVOK: Thirty seven escape pods.
PARIS: They're contaminated with theta radiation.
CHAKOTAY: Malon?
JANEWAY: Possibly.

Highly unlikely, it shouldn't have been in Chakotay's mind at all considering the fact that Voyager jumped 30,000 light-years since the last time they encountered the Malon. In fact, in their current position they're just as likely to encounter the Romulans as they are the Malon, probably moreso considering how much more advanced the Romulans seem to be. Voyager could not possibly encounter the Malon out here.

TUVOK: Theta radiation has affected a radius of six hundred million kilometres.
JANEWAY: Source?
TUVOK: A Malon freighter travelling at high impulse. It appears to be abandoned.

Clearly the writers didn't bother paying any attention to the events happening on their show, not even big event episodes like Timeless and Dark Frontier. And it's not a production glitch either, this episode appears to have aired in the correct order.

This is another episode which falls in the "meh" category for me, it's not bad and there is some interesting atmosphere built up on the Malon freighter, but I just didn't find it that interesting. B'Elanna has anger issues? Been there, done that. It feels like the same problem Harry Kim has, no matter what happens in an episode he will always revert back to being the naive ensign, well it seems that B'Elanna will always revert back to being angry B'Elanna. As for the "monster" on the Malon ship, there was no point in hiding the fact that it was a Malon who had been exposed to the radiation because that was obvious.

There's a good episode in here somewhere, but as is it has character and continuity problems.

Totally agreed. How much more awesome would this episode have been if the juggernaut in question been the Narada?

Nevermind.

In other news, one of the Malons was played by Vorik.

Someone to Watch Over Me (***½)

This is the first episode since Latent Image (excluding Course: Oblivion because it wasn't about the real Voyager) where the ship or a crewmember is not placed in peril during some point in the episode, and boy was I waiting for this. Putting the ship in danger is good when done in moderation, but some of the action scenes in this recent string of episodes have been especially forced, such as at the end of Gravity or The Disease. In contrast, Someone to Watch Over Me is completely character driven, there's not even a single explosion!

I enjoyed the scenes between Shmully and Seven, the two of them displayed great chemistry throughout the episode, and while I don't share Shmully's infatuation with Seven I can certainly buy into him falling for her. The problem I have with this story is that the episode ends with the status quo intact; Seven chickens out of continuing her search for a man and Shmully chickens out of telling her about the feelings he has developed for her. I was okay with that back when I first saw the episode because I thought something might come of this in the future, but the only pay-off this episode brings is a cheap joke in the penultimate episode.

Then you have the b-plot where Neelix is tasked with taking care of an ambassador, I did not care for this at all. Not only was the ambassador's gluttony overdone, but to me this is a rehash of Troi having to deal with the gluttonous ambassador in TNG's Liaisons. The episode did not need this and I feel it detracted from the otherwise good Shmully/Seven story.

But what this episode really needed was a kickin' piano duet between Seven and Shmully, it would have blown everyone's mind.

Agreed here too. A-plot, winner for me. B-plot, sucko.

If there was one thing I really hated about Voyager it was the over-reliance on action and putting the ship in jeopordy. One thing I loved about both TNG and DS9 was that if there was an action sequence, it was an event. It was moderate, and it was worth the wait. Action sequences in voyager happened almost every week and on DVD you really start to notice how repetitive things get.

That's why I like episodes like Someone to watch Over me. It's a character piece and while there is some silly humor, it doesn't stray away too much from what the show was trying to get. It's a great episode and probably season 5's best episode.

Well said.

 

[Bertie]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Someone to Watch Over Me

For some reason, I found the lobster scene endlessly amusing. The guest actor who was Seven's date/victim was great — really should have brought him back later for a follow up. Of course, this is Voyager, and we don't do that kind of thing here

 

[happydave]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Imagine a show where a character showed up in two episodes, died, and then showed up in a third with no explanation as to how he aten't dead.

Sounds like The Original Series where half the background redshirts would pop back up even though they'd been killed. Galloway for example. Leslie would also move around doing every job around the ship.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Imagine a show where a character showed up in two episodes, died, and then showed up in a third with no explanation as to how he aten't dead.

Sounds like The Original Series where half the background redshirts would pop back up even though they'd been killed. Galloway for example. Leslie would also move around doing every job around the ship.

Ooo! Good one, Happydave, good one!

I admit that I have some major prejudice against Enterprise, but perhaps one day I will overcome them.

Just out of curiosity: what prejudices would that be?

CountZero; I will try to provide you a sensible answer when I have sobered up. (Too much white wine tonight, I'm afraid!)

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Imagine a show where a character showed up in two episodes, died, and then showed up in a third with no explanation as to how he aten't dead.

Sounds like The Original Series where half the background redshirts would pop back up even though they'd been killed. Galloway for example. Leslie would also move around doing every job around the ship.

Galloway's death was the least of The Omega Glory's problems, but your point is taken.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"Someone to Watch Over Me's" b-plot with the Ambassador gets an automatic perfect rating from me, due to Scott Thompson of Kids in the Hall fame playing the Ambassador. (Seven of Mine!)

OT trivia: Which DS9 cast member made a few appearances on Kids in the Hall? (google is cheating )

 

[DWF]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Imagine a show where a character showed up in two episodes, died, and then showed up in a third with no explanation as to how he aten't dead.

Sounds like The Original Series where half the background redshirts would pop back up even though they'd been killed. Galloway for example. Leslie would also move around doing every job around the ship.

Mr. Leslie is a good example.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

11:59 (****)

Wow, two quiet shows in a row! This is quite nice, a few laid-back character pieces side by side so that I don't go crazy with all the peril Voyager has found itself in recently.

I'm probably being a bit generous on the score but I found this to be an enjoyable hour about hero worship, and it also helps to fill in the back-story of the Star Trek universe and how it is different from our own. I'm interested in seeing how life played out in the very, very late 20th century in the Star Trek universe, and the Millennium Gate is a neat concept that I wouldn't mind seeing more of in future Trek.



And then there is an interesting character story about Shannon and Henry's bookshop. Actually, I'm not sure if his name really is Henry, that guy has the look of a con-man about him. And I'm glad that Shannon convinced Henry to give up his shop, I'd hate for the Millennium Gate to be built in Canton Ohio, that place sucks ass!

JANEWAY: I don't know what my relatives were doing this far back in history.

OMG itz da suxor!!! This continuity error has raped my childhood!

Seriously, I'm not going to let a random line from a "fun" episode like Future's End ruin my enjoyment of 11:59. You're going to have to look for gross negativity elsewhere, perhaps my review of Coda...

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I really enjoyed "11:59" as well. I don't like it quite as much as you do but I think it is a nice solid 3 star episode.

These sorts of episodes always feel like comfort entertainment--nice quiet introspective episode with a heavy dose of sentimentality--sorta like those sappy Christmas stories that you'd see on Hallmark Channel. I also liked the similar ENT's "Carbon Creek".

Shannon O'Donnell really felt like a role well suited for Mulgrew--I see a lot of Mulgrew's personality in her. I liked seeing her struggles and her burgeoning relationship with Henry although Henry isn't exactly the guy I'd picture Shannon with.

The ending I thought was a nice touch. This is truly an episode that works due to the series of nice character moments that are ubiquitous.

If I remember correctly this episode had its origins at a dinner at Rick Berman's where John deLancie was a guest. The idea popped up of having an ancestor of Janeway sitting on a park bench where Q sits down next to this individual and they strike up a conversation. It didn't get much further than that but I think Brannon used it as a springboard for this episode.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I absolutely love 11:59, to the point where I remember where I was, what was going on, and how things were when it aired. We were getting right to the new Millennium, and that song (Millennium) was like the top of the charts for a point. As for this episode, it really spoke out to me for some reason. I guess this show was all about respecting ancestors but it was more Star Trek's tribute to the end of the Millennium and that's what resonated with me more. It may not be your typical Star Trek episode, but I don't think any other episode of Voyager (Other than maybe One Small Step) impacted me emotionally as much as this one did.