A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Once Upon A Time may not be the best episode, but I think it is one of the better ones - like I said back about Mortal Coil, it's using Neelix as more than the comic relief character, giving him a story with more meat. And they get bonus points for remembering his sister. There's some superficial resemblance to TNG's 'The Bonding,' (which was RDM's first episode, if I recall correctly) but in my opinion, much as I may love his work, I think this episode works better because of the more realistic portrayal of both the child and the adults around them.

Yeah, there's a little too much of the Flotter and Treevis stuff, but I'm not that upset about it - I like getting these little glimpses into the 24th century culture of humanity. We see so little of it, with the characters all seemingly more interested in what we consider modern or historical, it's a nice change to see the things the 24th century uses as popular culture. And sure, the holo-programs are sickeningly sweet, but remember, it's a children's program - don't we adults have the same opinion of children's shows today?

Also, I'm of the opinion that Scarlet Pomers is one of the better child actors Trek has gotten.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Once Upon a Time receives 2 stars out of four from me. I never cared for Michael Taylor's work on VOY--this episode, The Disease, Fury, Drive, Warhead.

I was bored. The crashed shuttle stuff held no suspense and usually when you know the crew is going to make it out it is at least milked for some emotion but it was emotionally vacuous.

I don't mind kid-centered stories(TNG's Hero Worship and The Bonding, Rascals, the kid subplot in Disaster) but I thought this one failed miserably. In fact, it seemed like a failed distillation of some of those very episodes. I didn't need to see a holodeck centering around some silly cartoon characters. I admit not caring much for "Cost of Living" but I enjoyed that weird kiddie program than this. I also have never cared for Neelix so his involvement, despite trying to add some depth to him, didn't engage me. He is best when delivered in small doses or not at all.

That's three weak episodes in a row--not a very strong start in my opinion to season five.

 

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Also, I'm of the opinion that Scarlet Pomers is one of the better child actors Trek has gotten.

To me, Scarlett Pomers was nothing short of the best child actor Trek had to offer. Others — like Noley Thornton and Wil Wheaton — were great, too. But Scarlett was the best.

As for Once Upon A Time, I don't really have a good memory of that episode. Gotta rewatch it one of these days.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Also, I'm of the opinion that Scarlet Pomers is one of the better child actors Trek has gotten.

To me, Scarlett Pomers was nothing short of the best child actor Trek had to offer. Others — like Noley Thornton and Wil Wheaton — were great, too. But Scarlett was the best.

As for Once Upon A Time, I don't really have a good memory of that episode. Gotta rewatch it one of these days.

Yeah, thinking back on it, I do put her in the 'best' spot in my mental rankings - I don't count Wil Wheaton as a child actor, since he was in his mid-to-late teens while on TNG.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

There's some superficial resemblance to TNG's 'The Bonding,'

I thought so as well.

but in my opinion, much as I may love his work, I think this episode works better because of the more realistic portrayal of both the child and the adults around them.

I disagree. The Bonding is one of my favorite TNG episodes. I'd give it 3.5 stars out of 4.

It worked better because the mother actually died so we could dispense with the artificial jeopardy rammed into the episode. Also in its favor was the fact that the subject matter was treated with a level of reflection & seriousness I found extremely lacking in "Once Upon a Time".

"The Bonding" also took the opportunity Aster's death afforded to examine and to comment on not just the death of an officer on the crew but a myriad of other relevant subject matter that was a natural outgrowth in a very effective way both intellectually and emotionally. I thought it was just overflowing with a lot of classic human scenes whether it was the Worf/Riker one in his quarters, the beautiful scene in Ten Forward between Riker and Data where Data tries to grasp why not all deaths are affecting, the great scene between Jeremy and Worf, the Crushers with that reflective moment between the two discussing Jack in Beverly's office and then later how Wesley confronts Picard, Picard's wonderful speeches about death, Troi put to great effect.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love 'The Bonding' myself. However, I don't think that Jeremy's reaction is all that realistic - Gene Roddenberry said he'd react in a more understanding way than RDM wrote it originally. I've lost a parent, and I didn't sit there and nod solemnly while it was explained to me, I broke down into tears. And this was for a parent I'd never interacted with - if it had been my mother, the only parent I'd really known, I would be inconsolable.

In contrast, Naomi being angry at Neelix keeping the fact that her mother is missing and going off and running away from him and the other adults around her feels more real to me. Yes, I wonder about if the episode would be more effective if Ensign Wildman did die (though, given that, excluding an appearance in the past sequences of 'Fury,' it seems the writers thought she DID), but Voyager was never about that level of downer endings. I may have wanted it to, but from the perspective of what we've got, not what we wanted, that's not in keeping with what is Voayger.

And as I said, the similarities are superficial - yeah, both are about children facing the possibility of losing a parent, but Once Upon A Time was about how to tell the child that they face losing a parent, while Bonding is about dealing with the actual loss. Though related, the two are different, because there's still a chance the parent might be back in the scenario Voyager used.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love 'The Bonding' myself. However, I don't think that Jeremy's reaction is all that realistic - Gene Roddenberry said he'd react in a more understanding way than RDM wrote it originally. I've lost a parent, and I didn't sit there and nod solemnly while it was explained to me, I broke down into tears. And this was for a parent I'd never interacted with - if it had been my mother, the only parent I'd really known, I would be inconsolable.

I never had a problem with Jeremy's reaction. People react to loss differently. Some are inconsolable immediately and others may keep busy preoccupying themselves as a way to avoid really confronting the loss i.e. Trip in "The Forgotten".

I had always viewed Jeremy's stoic reaction as him being numb and it really hadn't sunk in.

 

[NumberSix]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Once Upon A Time
Maybe we did see a bit too much of the cartoon characters, but I thought the episode was good. Naomi's mother (don't know her real name) did a nice job in her role as the dying mother saying goodbye to her child, and Scarlet Pomers is a decent child actress. I like seeing the 'extra' characters come up from under the "this-show-can-only-centre-around-the-main-charcaters" shield every once in awhile and share a storyline or two with us (yay to BSG).

I also agree with DGCatAniSiri in that it was interesting to see 24th century culture program and not a 'historical' programs that we're already familiar with. I'm sure Ethan Phillips likes a break from the comic relief role every now and then as well.


Looking forward to Timeless, one of my favourite episodes of the series.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

8472 Ellen Tigh kissing Chakotay? The words "complete inanity" come to mind.

Wow - I never made that connection!

Besides, I think Ellen Tigh was a hoot.

As for rating "In the Flesh" a 0 I can think of a few other episodes that derserve that but not this one.

 

[Bertie]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Also, I'm of the opinion that Scarlet Pomers is one of the better child actors Trek has gotten.

To me, Scarlett Pomers was nothing short of the best child actor Trek had to offer. Others — like Noley Thornton and Wil Wheaton — were great, too. But Scarlett was the best.

As for Once Upon A Time, I don't really have a good memory of that episode. Gotta rewatch it one of these days.

It is to Voyager's credit that the show generally got its recurring kids right (unlike earlier incarnations of Trek); Naomi and later Icheb added something to the show without being annoying.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Once Upon A Time - Definitely one of my favorites. So I'm gonna hit it with ****½.

 

[neogothboy74]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"Once Upon a Time" has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. I guess it need not be. Feeling the love. lol. I always liked the holodeck toon peeps. They felt right. And another Neelix episode that I enjoyed. When he's used well, he's a goldmine. And when he's not...well...he's not.

I thought the kid did a great job too. I don't think of Wesley or Jake as kids though, so I didn't have a lot to compare her to. Though Jake is very young at the start of DS9. I don't know that he was that great an actor, except that I completely bought his relationship with Sisko far more than I did Wesley's relationship with Beverly. And...I've lost track of what I was saying. lol.

 

[Alex1939]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^How predictable and unoriginal.

If you can't stand like Voyager at all, why are you here?

Because the reviews are entertaining. I also wondered if it would pique my interest enough to want to ever re-watch Voyager or at least watch episodes I've never seen. But it's really just reminded me what I didn't like about the show and the reason I don't want to watch it again. That and much of the thread is humorous.

I will say there around 20 episodes or so of Voyager that I do really enjoy.

 

[Mareika]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

8472 Ellen Tigh kissing Chakotay? The words "complete inanity" come to mind.

Wow - I never made that connection!

Besides, I think Ellen Tigh was a hoot.

As for rating "In the Flesh" a 0 I can think of a few other episodes that derserve that but not this one.

I think it`s Kate Vernon (BSG) who played Valerie Archer, not Ellen Tigh.

I like "In the flesh" a lot and not only because it`s a Chakotay episode.
I think it´s a interesting episode with a good message.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think it`s Kate Vernon (BSG) who played Valerie Archer, not Ellen Tigh.

Kate Vernon did play Archer but she also played the BSG character Ellen Tighe.

 

[AdmiralSteven]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Also, I'm of the opinion that Scarlet Pomers is one of the better child actors Trek has gotten.

I had to look Scarlet Pomers up, the name didn't ring a bell, but man has she grown into a beautiful young woman. Has it really been that long since Voyager's been on? Wow, I never would have recognized her if I didn't look her up.

 

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I had to look Scarlet Pomers up, the name didn't ring a bell, but man has she grown into a beautiful young woman. Has it really been that long since Voyager's been on? Wow, I never would have recognized her if I didn't look her up.

She definitely is a beaut, yes.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen, why was my PM ignored?

Anyway, glad you're back to your reviews.

I rather liked "Once Upon a Time" because it felt very realistic in terms of the way the characters behaved, and, again, as others have said, was a good use of Neelix other than Wacky Alien Comic Relief (tm). Also, I may just be gullible, but I honestly thought Naomi's mother might have died and Neelix would have to raise her. Honestly, I would not have minded that at all. Like with Chakotay's almost-kid from "Basics," this would have given the "parent" character something nice to do, and contributed to the idea of Voyager as a unique growing community in space.

Why can't I have nice things?

Was there too much of the holo-cartoons? Sure. But they were pretty entertaining, IMO. Treevis was terrific. Being a premature curmudgeon myself, I do enjoy a good curmudgeonly character.

Also, I'm of the opinion that Scarlet Pomers is one of the better child actors Trek has gotten.

To me, Scarlett Pomers was nothing short of the best child actor Trek had to offer. Others — like Noley Thornton and Wil Wheaton — were great, too. But Scarlett was the best.

Definitely agreed. Scarlett was and is very, very talented, and a very lovely young woman. I enjoyed her on "Reba."

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen: I'm sorry the manwhoring didn't work out for you. It's amazing what a few well-placed bribes can do. Nothing personal, you understand. Oh, and I'm glad you're continuing the thread.

Alex1939: You will stop the trollish behavior in this thread (and any other for that matter) or you will get a warning. Your call.

The rest of you I will repeat DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

If you believe someone is here just to cause trouble then either notify or wait for a mod to notice. We'll handle it.

 

[Mareika]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think it`s Kate Vernon (BSG) who played Valerie Archer, not Ellen Tigh.

Kate Vernon did play Archer but she also played the BSG character Ellen Tighe.

Oh yes, you`are right. I should watch BSG more often.