A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[The Grim Ghost]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ Well TNG was supposed to be about exploration, but they spent little time actually doing it. I say that as someone who loves TNG.

 

[NumberSix]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Raven

An ok episode, I like that Tuvok was the person sent in to rescue her instead of it always being Janeway.

With regards to the catsuit, I have to say I didn't really think about it too much when I first watched the series. Maybe I was used to them from watching Troi in TNG and Kira in DS9 but as I got older and re-watched them, I began to hate Seven's costume. Troi's was just stupid and they eventually put her in a uniform and Kira's didn't really bother me (except for those shoulder pads which they later got rid of - thank god), but Seven's was just ridiculous. I felt sorry for Jeri Ryan - she must not have eaten for 4 years and to be constantly worrying about looking perfect would have been stressful. But it was what it was, they needed ratings and they got them. It would have been nice for her to get some real clothes later on in the series though, at least once she'd established her character and popularity.

 

[NumberSix]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Oops, double posted.

 

[m.lp.ql.m]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I just think tight fitting clothing always looks best and would rather have the rest of the crew switching over to tight one pieces...

Including Neelix? :P

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well, speaking as a woman, I can say that having hair that long and pulling it back is actually much easier to to do than having short hair. Short hair cannot be pulled out of your face without a lot of fuss and muss, short hair is actually harder to style, and short hair is difficult to do anything with if you've got a causal cut and want to go for something dressy. It's a fine line, really. All I'm saying is the long yet pulled back look is more practical/functional than you might think.

Huh. I have very little experience with long hair, so I didn't know. Of course, Seven isn't exactly the kind to go for styling or dressy - Sometimes I wonder why Seven never commented on how 'inefficient' hair is in the first place - You don't see the average drone with hair, after all.

Also, count me in the number that never wanted Seven to be commissioned. Her character would not have worked in the guise of a Starfleet officer. She and Janeway clashed heads enough just trying to get her to be human.

I was mainly going for a way to get her out of those catsuits - we'd seen her in the Starfleet uniform, so that was my first choice. But something other than the catsuits.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I was mainly going for a way to get her out of those catsuits - we'd seen her in the Starfleet uniform, so that was my first choice. But something other than the catsuits.

I am right there with you. I would like to have seen her out of the catsuit as well. It would have been a prime opportunity for the costume department to come up with some fabulous outfits. I mean, she's not in Starfleet, and she's trying to find ways to express herself. What better way than her clothing?

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Raven is one of my least favs from Season 4. Snoozefest.

 

[Frazzled]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I just think tight fitting clothing always looks best and would rather have the rest of the crew switching over to tight one pieces than Seven switch into the awful Voyager uniform - which I found to be one the worst ST uniforms of all.

I like the Voyager uniform best. I like the way it's all black apart from the bright colour at the top, it suits most of the crew, and it tends to be fairly fitted if not completely 'tight'. Unlike the horrible shapeless thick fabric uniforms they switched to immediately after it in DS9, still black but chunky and the ribbed dull blue at the top is bluurrrgghhh.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The sad truth of the matter is that Seven looked so much better in a regular uniform with her hair down, yet the producers thought we all preferred her in the cat-suit when that wasn't the case (certain posters excluded ). She's an attractive woman, they should have let her be that rather than make her into a joke.

At least the silver one was very short-lived. I do agree with you, it was very adolescent and demeaning to the audience as well as the character.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The only thing I didn't like about The Raven were the unnecessary aliens that came with it. Actually, it's one of my qualms with the series in that they focused on action way too much and this was an episode that didn't need to. It could have been a great character study episode and for the most part it was, but the aliens were not needed.

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Didn't these aliens of the week (TM) have weird 1980s themed costumes and make up?

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think they had strange metal headgear - like they had lost a fight with a toast rack.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Scientific Method (*)

This episode is a bizarre mess of an ensemble show. I like it when Voyager makes use of many characters rather than just one or two, but this episode is not the way to do it because there is no core to it, the show morphs from one form to another and the pieces don't fit.

The first 15 minutes of the show is focused on Tom and B'Elanna's relationship, but then they almost fall off the face of the episode as the story shifts to Chakotay and Neelix who have strange medical ailments. Then they completely disappear as the episode decides to follow Ken Shmully and Seven, but then that gets dropped in favour of Janeway and her reckless driving. Then the episode comes full circle with a scene about Tom and B'Elanna, which fails as a bookend because I don't think either one of them was involved in final 20 minutes of the show.

And lets not forget Janeway's solution to the problem; fly the ship between 2 pulsars with a 95% probability of complete destruction. Of course all that happens is that the hull turns a little red and there is no casualties because this is Voyager, a show where you can do the stupidest fucking thing possible and still end up on top.

The scenes about Tom and B'Elanna at the beginning are interesting, the rest of the episode is a disjointed mess. The first below average episode of the season, and I'm using this as an excuse to remove that shame from my signature.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Ha! I remember liking this one. It was fun seeing all the bizarre experiments performed on the crew, and Janeway going slowly insane amused me no end. But you're right, it's totally stupid.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I loved Janeway flipping out and pushing that alien chick up against the wall. I do always love seeing Janeway go badass on us.

I do understand what you're saying about it being disjointed, however. I enjoyed the episode for it's dramatic appeal rather than its plausibility rating.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Scientific Method (*)

This episode is a bizarre mess of an ensemble show. I like it when Voyager makes use of many characters rather than just one or two, but this episode is not the way to do it because there is no core to it, the show morphs from one form to another and the pieces don't fit.

The first 15 minutes of the show is focused on Tom and B'Elanna's relationship, but then they almost fall off the face of the episode as the story shifts to Chakotay and Neelix who have strange medical ailments. Then they completely disappear as the episode decides to follow Ken Shmully and Seven, but then that gets dropped in favour of Janeway and her reckless driving. Then the episode comes full circle with a scene about Tom and B'Elanna, which fails as a bookend because I don't think either one of them was involved in final 20 minutes of the show.

And lets not forget Janeway's solution to the problem; fly the ship between 2 pulsars with a 95% probability of complete destruction. Of course all that happens is that the hull turns a little red and there is no casualties because this is Voyager, a show where you can do the stupidest fucking thing possible and still end up on top.

The scenes about Tom and B'Elanna at the beginning are interesting, the rest of the episode is a disjointed mess. The first below average episode of the season, and I'm using this as an excuse to remove that shame from my signature.

Hm, I'm going to have to totally disagree with you on this one. I think the show does a good job of illustrating what happens when one species thinks they're superior enough to experiment on another one "for the greater good." After all, weren't these the same arguments given for the Nazi medical experiments in the death camps? Unlike the Jews the Voyager crew was in a position to fight back.

Also, the scenes where Seven could see what was happening but was not allowed to show it were as creepy as anything else you would see in a "Halloween episode".

As for Janeway flying the ship between two pulsars you try being experimented on for weeks then watching one of your crew die and see what lengths you would go through to make it all end one way or the other. That seemed real to me.

 

[Frazzled]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I loved this one. I loved the way the redshirt dying was treated with the horror every death amongst such a small crew should have been, and I loved Janeway in this one particularly when she succeeded in frightening away the horrible scientist woman. Yes it was probably irrational - some of the crew would've survived the experiments whereas there was a 19 out of 20 chance they wouldn't survive flying into the pulsars - but I preferred seeing her doing something proactive to rid the ship of those aliens.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Yes it was probably irrational - some of the crew would've survived the experiments whereas there was a 19 out of 20 chance they wouldn't survive flying into the pulsars - but I preferred seeing her doing something proactive to rid the ship of those aliens.

Well she was drugged at the time. Those who criticize her for her "irrationality" in this episode tend to gloss over that fact, imo. I agree it was nice to see some proactiveness after watching them all get experimented on for most of the episode.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I complained a lot about Janeway's inconsistancy, especially in Season 5, but I really liked her in Scientific Method. Of course she was irrational. She was under a lot of stress and she was pretty much a lab rat. I would have done the same thing under that situation.

 

[JustKate]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

We now return you to your regular thread.

Not just yet.

May I play? I finally saw the movie last night...

Spoiler: Star Trek XI

I should say first that I am not a big fan of the movies. I have usually been at least somewhat disappointed, and the times I wasn't disappointed was because my expectations were quite low. They weren't high this time either, despite the hype - and perhaps that's why I came away fairly well satisfied. I'd call it one of the better Trek movies, but as I say that, keep in mind my general opinion of Trek movies. Which is: Not high.

Like Praetor, I enjoyed it, and the reboot concept actually worked fairly well for me, which is pretty amazing considering what a canon-junkie I am. Some of the redone characters worked very well - Quinto was fab, considering whose shoes he had to fill (Spock has been my favorite since, like, 1967, so I am a very demanding audience), and the new Sulu and Uhura were good, too. Personally I think Uhura was kind of wasted (too much love interest and not enough Starfleet officer), but the actor did very well. Sulu and McCoy didn't have as much to do, but they did fine, I thought. Scotty and Chekov...well, they were mostly comic relief. They did well at that, but I personally think Scotty should have been more than comic relief and I also think Simon Pegg deserved better, too. Oh, well. (The friend I went with loved the Scotty sequences, though - those were her favorite parts.)

Kirk...not quite as successful, IMO. I don't think this was Pine's fault. Kirk was written as such a arrogant little punk - OK, with some likable qualities, but still - that I couldn't imagine him applying to Starfleet, much less succeeding there, and if he did apply and succeed, he should not have continued to be such an arrogant punk. I utterly loathed the Kobayashi Maru scene.

And I thought the villain...kind of boring. I mean, he looked nicely evil, and the ship was very cool and evil and weird looking, but he turned out to be pretty much Standard Issue SciFi Bad Guy. He wasn't even really recognizable as a Romulan, and I am not referring to his appearance (I mean, I was prepared for that). He just didn't do anything Romulanish, which was a huge disappointment. He was so indistinguishable that he could have been any bad-guy alien race, including a brand new one. Waste of a Romulan, if you ask me.

But the big problem was with the plot - way, way, way, way too many coincidences for me. If this had been Star Wars or a Terry Pratchett book, we could have chalked this up to the Force or the Lady, but since this was Trek, that doesn't work. At all. And the need to sort of justify all those coincidences forced the characters into doing stupid out-of-character stuff too. I mean...throwing a crewmember off the ship onto a frozen planet because he'd pissed you off? Please. I happen to know they have a brig on the Enterprise, after all.

And while I know they had to introduce these characters to us and to each other...golly, that didn't leave much time for actual plot. And so what was meant to feel epic - what should have been epic, given that this was Trek, that it was the first of the reboot movies, that it had this great cast including Nimoy and so on - ended up kind of mooshed into too short of a time frame. It kind of reminded me of TMP in that one way.

But I did enjoy it, and I might even see it again in IMAX, if only because seeing the NCC-1701 on the big screen again was such a thrill. And all the fun Trek geek references were great, too. But I cannot imagine how anybody can go and watch it over and over and over again and still enjoy it. Yet clearly some people are doing just that. Huh.

And by the way, I still think those damn miniskirts are silly. I was fine with them when everybody was strolling around the academy campus - the costumes managed to be really retro-fun for a while - but retro-fun is out of place on a battleship. Jeez, get those girls some pants.

And now, back to our regular programming.