A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

and the way Tuvok assembles everyone and describes how he solved the case is silly.

You haven't read much Sherlock Holmes, have you? The assembly of interested parties to announce the murderer and how the investigator got there is classic mystery fare.

I know that, but this is Star Trek and not Sherlock Holmes so it came off as incredibly cheesy, at least to me. If you are going to do an homage to Sherlock Holmes then you have to give a wink to the audience, if you play it like straight-up drama then it comes off as cliché.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

and the way Tuvok assembles everyone and describes how he solved the case is silly.

You haven't read much Sherlock Holmes, have you? The assembly of interested parties to announce the murderer and how the investigator got there is classic mystery fare.

I know that, but this is Star Trek and not Sherlock Holmes so it came off as incredibly cheesy, at least to me. If you are going to do an homage to Sherlock Holmes then you have to give a wink to the audience, if you play it like straight-up drama then it comes off as cliché.

So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?

If I was writing it I wouldn't have done the scene at all.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?

If I was writing it I wouldn't have done the scene at all.

So how would you have wound up the episode?

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tuvok could have mentioned that an ancestor of his maintained that when everything implausible is eliminated, whatever remains, however impossible... demands you assemble all the suspects for a big reveal.

 

[JustKate]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ THAT would have been fabulous. And it would have been kind of a wink at Data, too.

 

[Lynx]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I like "Ex Post Facto"; it has a dog in it, who wins the day. That is a great feature.

And the woman has feathers for hair. She's a mala right out of a telenovela; a perfect vilana type. I just don't know why the dog didn't bite her; that would have been more like it. Dogs know. But vilanas can get away with murder -- except not this time.

It's kind of in the vein of a "torture Paris" episode; he sort of inherited the venerable "torture O'Brien" legacy. Paris is my favorite, so I thoroughly enjoy seeing so much of him.

Seriously, the ability they have of seeing through someone else's eyes is fascinating. I would love to do that.

I like it too. A good detective story and a good Tuvok story as well. I like the way he solves the problem.

The only thing that I find a bit odd is actually the dog. I mean, there are dogs on the other side of the galaxy. Hmmmm.............

They should have made it a crossing between a dog and a lizard or something like that, something more "alien".

I actually re-watched "Parallax" and "Time And Again" yesterday and found an odd thing in "Time And Again" (OK, I've noticed that one before but never brought it up for discussion).

In "Caretaker", The Doctor is treating Kes when she comes on board the ship. He also treats Torres for the strange disease which she and Kim got after being kidnapped by the Caretaker.

In "Time And Again", The Doctor seem surprised that "Kes's brain wasn't on file". he also seems surprised that another crew (the Maquis) had come on board and that no one had told him about the newcomers. But shouldn't he have noticed that already in "Caretaker". Not to mention that he did interact with Kes in "Parallax" too and according to the stardates, there were almost exactly two months between the events in "Caretaker" and the events in "Time And Again".

A gllitch in the program or did the good, old Doc suffer from amnesia?

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

One Doctor thing that has always bothered me was the one in Emanations where Kes isolates herself in Doctor's office. Doctor says he cannot get into his office, yet in so many other episodes he walks through force fields without any problems.

 

[Jeri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Lynx, the bit about the dog didn't bother me; like the "dogs" of TOS: Enemy Within, I figure they just stand in for whatever companion animal an alien might have. I made my peace with that about 40 years ago. It's what we've got to work with here on the third rock.

Don't recall about the other question -- I'll have to give it a look next time.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The only thing that I find a bit odd is actually the dog. I mean, there are dogs on the other side of the galaxy. Hmmmm.............

That's because dogs are in the process of taking over the universe. I have a little tyrant of my own in fact.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?

If I was writing it I wouldn't have done the scene at all.

So how would you have wound up the episode?

I suppose I'd do the realistic thing and bring the evidence to the main policeman guy, whatever his name was, then maybe they could set a trap and have the doctory man walk into it. Then I would end the episode by having Neelix attacked by a poisonous snake. For the kids.

If I had written this episode then it would have focused on Paris and his forced memories, I wouldn't have turned it into an investigation story half-way through the episode.

Tuvok could have mentioned that an ancestor of his maintained that when everything implausible is eliminated, whatever remains, however impossible... demands you assemble all the suspects for a big reveal.

Now that's a fun idea I can get behind.


Emanations (*½)

I read somewhere that Brannon Braga is an atheist and speaks at atheist conferences (there are atheist conferences?) so I guess this episode plays into that a little bit. As an atheist myself I think this is an interesting idea for an episode; a society who have an absolute certainty about the afterlife, but it turns out that they end up as decaying corpses on lifeless asteroids.

The problem is that the episode feels very scattered and failed to hold my interest largely due to some goofy performances by the guest roles. Then the episode ends by suggesting that there is strange energy patterns in the asteroid field which is probably a sign that these aliens really do go to an afterlife, which is a complete about-face on what the episode had been until that point. I come away from this episode not knowing what it was about.

This is another episode which could have been done on TNG, but it does contain Harry's first death, something he will experience a couple more times before Voyager finishes her journey.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ I usually skip this episode when re-watching the series. I'm guessing you're not going to get too many arguments on this one.

 

[leola]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Emanations (*½)

This is another episode which could have been done on TNG, but it does contain Harry's first death, something he will experience a couple more times before Voyager finishes her journey.

Agreed; meh episode.

Are we adding Harry Death Count to the Torpedo Count and Shuttle Count?

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

'Emanations' sucked but the themes and basic idea were very interesting. It's a shame it flopped. They really probably should have forced themselves to filter when coming up with an episode: 'Would we/could we have done this on TNG?' If yes, the next question would be 'Is it worth telling this story on Voyager?' an 9 out of 10 times, that answer should have been no. Only when the story was worthwhile should it have slipped through.

'Emanations' is important because it is (I believe) the first episode to reinforce my one rule of 'Voyager':
The universe hates Harry Kim.

When you accept and watch with this in mind, everything about Voyager makes more sense. Seriously, try it.

 

[Jeri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

A good thing about Emanations is the character of Hatil Garan; he's a sympathetic figure, and indeed I think his re-examination of their culture's beliefs is the point of the story. It's very satisfying that Harry gets to save this fellow.

 

[JustKate]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Emanations (*½)
I read somewhere that Brannon Braga is an atheist and speaks at atheist conferences (there are atheist conferences?) so I guess this episode plays into that a little bit. As an atheist myself I think this is an interesting idea for an episode; a society who have an absolute certainty about the afterlife, but it turns out that they end up as decaying corpses on lifeless asteroids.

The problem is that the episode feels very scattered and failed to hold my interest largely due to some goofy performances by the guest roles. Then the episode ends by suggesting that there is strange energy patterns in the asteroid field which is probably a sign that these aliens really do go to an afterlife, which is a complete about-face on what the episode had been until that point. I come away from this episode not knowing what it was about.

This is another episode which could have been done on TNG, but it does contain Harry's first death, something he will experience a couple more times before Voyager finishes her journey.

To me (and I am a religious person), this episode was - dare I say it? - kind of spiritual. Like you, GodBen, I thought it would be one of those "Oh, those poor deluded religious fools" episodes and I'm like, jeez, not again...but it didn't seem that way to me in the end.

I KIND of liked this episode. It was clumsy, but the themes were big, and I do admire an episode that tries to tackle a big theme. Albeit clumsily. So I give it a meh+a couple points for theme.

'Emanations' is important because it is (I believe) the first episode to reinforce my one rule of 'Voyager':
The universe hates Harry Kim.

Maybe the universe is just kind of bored with Harry?

 

[joyofvgr]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Many comment about Emmanations being an Atheistic episdode. It may be true that the way the afterlife the people of that planet believed in was nothing more than an Asteroid which had now become a tomb, but at the end of Emmanations the crew finds an energy source around the planet that leads them to believe it is still possible that there is life after death.

KIM: Thank you, Captain. I have been a little preoccupied with the experience. I mean, all those people think that they know what happens after death. They look forward to it. They're prepared for it. But the truth is, none of it's real. They don't have an afterlife. They just decay inside those asteroids.
JANEWAY: I wouldn't be so sure of that, if I were you. That neural energy their bodies release, it becomes part of the ambient electromagnetic field surrounding the planet. Our readings also indicate the energy is unusually dynamic. There's a great deal of variation and pattern complexity, quantum density.
KIM: Are you saying you think they do have an afterlife? That the energy field is where they exist at a higher level of consciousness, just like they believe?
JANEWAY: I'm not certain, but I am certain about this. What we don't know about death is far, far greater than what we do know. See you in two days, Ensign.
KIM: Thank you, Captain.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Are we adding Harry Death Count to the Torpedo Count and Shuttle Count?

May as well. It would be great if Harry dies in a shuttle crash caused by Voyager shooting at him with a torpedo!

'Emanations' is important because it is (I believe) the first episode to reinforce my one rule of 'Voyager':
The universe hates Harry Kim.

When you accept and watch with this in mind, everything about Voyager makes more sense. Seriously, try it.

I'll keep that in mind. In fact it already seems to have worked for me because...


Prime Factors (*****)

Now how did I forget about this little gem? When the aliens showed up in the beginning I thought it was going to be a boring episode about some nice aliens with a dark secret, but this episode really turns into something meaningful. As Janeway says in one scene, this is the first time that we have seen the Prime Directive from the other side of the fence and it explores this idea well. I would even go as far as to say that it is a perfect use of Voyager's premise.

There is a nice scene between Janeway and Tuvok where she is debating whether it is okay to break her principles in order to get home, and how could she explain it to the crew if she does not. I agree with Janeway's decision in this episode and it is made more poignant by knowing that in Endgame she is going to sacrifice her principles in order to get home.

"Principles, principles. That’s what it comes down to. Do I compromise my almighty principles?"

The mini-mutiny in engineering is believable, and I even accept Tuvok's logic in helping them out. In the end there is a lot of technobabble, but it is okay because the solution to the problem is to pull out a phaser and shoot the illegally obtained device. Cut the BS, that's what I like to see!

It is like Eye of the Needle in that it builds up hope only to find that it was never going to pay off, but this time some of the main characters have to own up and pay the price. The final scene is fantastic and Janeway comes across really well, but so too do B'Elanna and Tuvok. My only real problem with this episode is that there is no lasting consequences (unless you count the wardrobe malfunction involving Tuvok's rank) but the final scene overpowers that to make this my first five-star episode of Voyager.

 

[leola]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Are we adding Harry Death Count to the Torpedo Count and Shuttle Count?

May as well. It would be great if Harry dies in a shuttle crash caused by Voyager shooting at him with a torpedo!

Write that, please, somebody!

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm liking the love for Prime Factors. I just saw that episode a few weeks ago for the second time since getting the DVDs and I'm not sure why I didn't like it before then. I think it had something to do with the people with the "Homer Simpson Wires" and how they seemed a little creepy with the hospitality. The plot though, was really really good.