a reference to generations in "all good things"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by daveyjones, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. daveyjones

    daveyjones Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    sorry if this has been brought up before... i was finishing my blu ray watch thru of TNG last night with "all good things." and i saw something i had never noticed before.

    there is scene when picard is back in the farpoint mission time period, and he walks into the conference room to meet with the senior staff. the inboard wall has been restored to appear like it did in the earlier seasons, with the large golden foam casts of the various enterprise ships. picard's entrance is shot from the rear door, or the "less used" entrance to the room, meaning that he's walking alongside the ships. actors often exit a conference room scene from this door, but less frequently enter from it. and picard rarely if ever enters from this door. in the shot, patrick stewart does a very drawn out and measured approach to the enterprise B model. the shot lasts for like, literally eleven whole seconds. he almost cautiously approaches the ship, and comes to stare right at it. then he is interrupted by staff entering the room from the opposite, more commonly used door.

    [​IMG]

    the staging of this shot seems entirely deliberate in order to showcase the wall of ships and picard's pensive interest in the enterprise B. now the productions of generations and "all good things" overlapped. the cast said they wrapped the series on a friday or whatever, and then on monday started working on the movie. so the cast would have had the movie script in hand while shooting the series finale.

    although we as audience members did not learn of kirk's (cheated) fate aboard the enterprise B until we saw the film, his canonical "death" would have been known to all characters during the run of TNG—especially to picard—who was close to sarek and knew and worked with spock. so this scene in "all good things" is surely picard pausing to reflect on kirk's death aboard that ship.

    now my question is, who's idea do you think this was to insert this little easter egg into "all good things" ? my thinking is this is totally a patrick stewart move. it seems like an actor's decision. i can imagine stewart having a brief conversation with director winrich kolbe when they were setting up the conference room scene and, having read the generations script and prepared to shoot that film, he suggested this setup from this vantage to kolbe so that picard can have his little moment with the enterprise B.

    thoughts?
     
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  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    Very cool observation! He even says "foreknowledge of what's to come" as he looks at the B.
    He probably wondered why it's the pre-refit one that hangs in his conference room and not the actual B (which of course wasn't designed yet when the models were made) XD
     
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  3. Serveaux

    Serveaux American Premium Member

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    I think it's entirely a coincidence. The B is at Stewart's eye level.
     
  4. daveyjones

    daveyjones Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    it's possible, naturally. but i really do doubt it. have a look and watch the clip if you have the episode handy. here are some additional screencaps of the scene to clarify. the entire sequence is about 12 to 14 seconds from fade in:

    picard enters, and walks slowly along the wall.
    [​IMG]
    he then slows as he approaches the B. doesn't notice it yet.
    [​IMG]
    the ship gets his attention. pointly, stewart is considering it as a prop.
    [​IMG]
    he stops and turns, looking only at the body of the enterprise B model.
    [​IMG]
    he appears pensive. stewart is doing his "picard is preoccupied" affectation.
    [​IMG]
    he is fully turned to only the enterprise B, directly. he is looking down at it. it is not at his eye level.
    right as he is lost in thought, picard's personal log voice over says "...i cannot risk giving them foreknowledge of what's to come." that was added in post of course. it could be a coincidence, sure. but remember moore and bragga would have been part of post on "all good things." and ron in particular is a fanboy who loved to sneak references into TNG. both generations and "all good things" were their babies.
    [​IMG]
    his thoughts of and gaze down towards the model are only broken by the sound of tasha entering. he snaps his head around to look at her.
    [​IMG]

    again it's possible this is mere coincidence. yet both stewart as an actor and kolbe as a director were very considered and intentional on TNG. patrick never did a single thing on that show by mistake. the setup for this shot, compared to every other conference room sequence on the show (and i've seen a bloody lot of them, having just binged the series) is drawn out, slow, and unusual. in fact. not a single other conference scene that i can recall featured stewart taking such a long, slow stroll along the ship models. and i don't think he ever stopped to consider one (for five seconds!).

    my two cents only. but given the evidence at hand i am convinced this was deliberate.
     
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  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He looks more like he's lost in thought rather than looking at the Enterprise-B. Maybe if he wiped dust off of it or something, it might be a telltale nod. But I think you're reading more into that scene than what's actually there.
     
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  6. daveyjones

    daveyjones Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    it's entirely possible. like all visual art, let the viewer draw their own conclusions.
     
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  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You’re welcome to interpret the scene however you like. I didn’t film the scene so I don’t know if the director’s intention was what you speculate. But it just doesn’t look that way to me.
     
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  8. amp

    amp Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Here are the directions in the script:
    So it looks like the original staging was changed. Picard starts the scene at the wall Instead of looking out the window. It's hardly definitive but I think this does support the idea that the shot of him staring at the B was done intentionally.
     
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  9. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    They could've wanted to highlight not only Tasha, but also the old wall panel to show that we're in the past. While they did that, someone could've realized that the B is gonna be opening the next movie, so they focused on that one specifically.
     
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  10. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But would Stewart's script have included the begining scenes with the Enterprise-B and Kirk?

    Stewart wasn't in that portion of the movie, so why have those pages.
     
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  11. ThankQ

    ThankQ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's basically what I was going to show. They were focusing on the ships to show they were in the past.

    Since it's basically on topic, does anyone know why the changed it? It was between S4/S5 or S5/S6, right? I always thought the model wall was an amazing touch, then they go and replace it with those Big Lots faux-buttress looking things.
     
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  12. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I think it's a pretty large reach that the shot was deliberately staged that way to reference the movie.
     
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  13. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe because the C didn't turn out as planned XD
     
  14. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    IIRC it got damaged when it was taken down so they could use the set for TUC.
     
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  15. daveyjones

    daveyjones Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    yea i'm not suggesting it's some master plan. i just picture stewart and kolbe setting up the shot, and stewart suggesting that he pause on the enterprise B. two second conversation, based on stewart having read the script.

    now in terms of how the voiceover lines up, i'd pin that on moore in post. it would be a great convention question for moore and/or bragga, for sure.
     
  16. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really, honestly don't think so.
     
  17. PhotoBoy

    PhotoBoy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe I’m doing Stewart a disservice but I never got the impression he was that interested in the details of the show, would he even know which one was the Enterprise B? The models aren’t especially detailed, he might have thought it was the model of the D he was contemplating on the wall.
     
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Leads get the entire script. Because actors have to decide if they want to be part of the movie or not, and you can't judge the potential of the film just from your sides. Only minor parts get sides alone.