A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[Vestboy]

I guess he sees waiters as pushers who insist if you aren't having alcohol, you're doing something wrong. (Though if you are having coffee with dinner... you kind of are...)

I don't see what's wrong with having coffee with dinner (tea man, m'self) and honestly I've never gone to a restaurant where it's expected that I order wine (but my idea of a 'restaurant' includes McDonalds, what do I know?).

The idea that'd occur in the present day, let alone the future, did strike me as a little preposterous at the time. If it is done it makes the scene more explicable but not really the motivation.

It's not done, at least no place I've ever been. I'm infrequent with wine drinking, but I've never had the slightest questioning on ordering, say, water, iced tea or club soda. I'm enough of a food snob to raise an eyebrow at getting coffee with dinner (as opposed to with desert), but I've never seen a waiter who would actually argue to the point with you.

 

[Reverend]

^I have. Certain classes of restaurant tend to treat all but the most high paying customer as uncultured idiots who don't know how to use the cutlery...which isn't entierly inaccurate.

Remember, on B5 'Fresh Air' isn't just a "nice" restaurant or even just a "very good" one. It's a five star gourmet restaurant specialising in the finest cuisine from dozens of worlds. Plus the owner is supposed to be the reincarnation of Basil Fawlty.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

They seem to be the only restaurant on the station, so they need to serve a greater range of customers than a regular top restaurant. We see them deliver pizza to the doorstep, which seems uncommon for such an restaurant.

So i do not see such an "elite" way of treating customers work in that environment.

 

[Admiral Shran]

If I were in Garibaldi's position and a waiter treated me like that, I'd just say....

"Well, Fresh Air isn't getting any more of my business. From now on I'm only patronizing Quark's Bar, Grill, Gaming House, and Holosuite Arcade."

After all.... Come to Quark's, Quark's is fun, come right now, don't walk - run.

 

[hyzmarca]

Or, order the most expensive wine there, but not drink it and not pay for it. Instead, say "[Waiter's name] said that the wine was on the house" and leave.

It's not like he could get into any trouble for it, given his position within the ISA. And it's not like Zack would be willing to pull a Roger Murtaugh over a little dine and dash.

 

[Forbin]

If I were in Garibaldi's position and a waiter treated me like that, I'd just say....

"Well, Fresh Air isn't getting any more of my business. From now on I'm only patronizing Quark's Bar, Grill, Gaming House, and Holosuite Arcade."

After all.... Come to Quark's, Quark's is fun, come right now, don't walk - run.

Hey, it's a big enough pain in the butt to chage tables, much less universes!

 

[Neroon]

If I were in Garibaldi's position and a waiter treated me like that, I'd just say....

"Well, Fresh Air isn't getting any more of my business. From now on I'm only patronizing Quark's Bar, Grill, Gaming House, and Holosuite Arcade."

After all.... Come to Quark's, Quark's is fun, come right now, don't walk - run.

Hey, it's a big enough pain in the butt to chage tables, much less universes!

- that works!

 

[Reverend]

They seem to be the only restaurant on the station, so they need to serve a greater range of customers than a regular top restaurant. We see them deliver pizza to the doorstep, which seems uncommon for such an restaurant.

So i do not see such an "elite" way of treating customers work in that environment.

The 'Dining on Babylon 5' book actually mentions that the owner was (in 2260) considering putting pizza on the menu based on Garibaldi's insistence. Either way, the place isn't as high class as it likes to think it is, but on a way station like B5 it's not like there's so much competition at that end of the marker so it's not that surprising they're putting on airs.

As for other restaurants; 'Fresh Air' is the only 5 star, but I imagine there are a bunch of others from bars in brown sector that serve "food" to places like Earharts, the casino, the Eclipse Cafe, Zocalo Pizza, McBari's...others. I'm not sure where Ivanova took her old Rabbi but it was defiantly a restaurant but I don't think it was Fresh Air. Could be wrong.

 

[TheGodBen]

BTW, I'm glad you made it back, too, TGB.

Ja

Thanks, glad to be back.

I don't see what's wrong with having coffee with dinner.

Scandalous! It's just not done in polite society!

The scene with the waiter is something that actually happened to Joe at a restaurant in Los Angeles once when he tried to order coffee.

Based on a real guy? Wow. At least LA is famous for being an addict-free zone, so he's not doing any harm.

Just doesn't drink. He's said several times that there's alcoholism going back generations in his family so he doesn't touch the stuff.

Jan

I used to be like that. There's a history of alcohol problems on both sides of my family so I refused to drink as a teenager while my friends used to get beer somehow and drink it in fields. It certainly hampered my social life once I went to college. When I was 19 I finally decided to try beer, and I realised that I didn't like it. Not liking it made me feel safe, so I allowed myself to drink from then on.

The thing that interests me about Garibaldi's alcoholism is that I don't understand it, I don't understand his craving. I only craved alcohol once in my life and on that occasion I didn't drink because I had an exam the following morning. Even then I craved only 1 drink in order to relax, not 10 in order to get drunk. I just don't get it, I hope I never do.

But it sure does make interesting television!


And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder (****)

Lennier screws everything up by revealing the truth. Damn you, Lennier! Why can't you be a good guy that tries not to stir up trouble, like the honourable Mr Garibaldi. Sure, Garibaldi may have screwed up by not informing the White Star fleet like he should have, but he has a good excuse: he was drunk. What's your excuse, Lennier? You don't drink, so you screwed up the galaxy while completely sober! I'm very disappointed in you, Lennier.

I enjoyed most of this episode, particularly the first half where it feels like a courtroom drama where an empire is the accused. Seeing Londo react to the evidence was a treat because he knows it's probably true, but he's still shocked by it and continues to put forth the version of events his government wishes him to. G'Kar choosing to return to Centauri Prime with Londo leads to an interesting scene where he says goodbye to Delenn. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last time they see one another.

Then comes Sheridan's breakdown. Jebus H Christ, he's displaying Archer levels of stupidity! It's one thing to lose your temper in a stressful situation, it's another thing to lose your temper and start a devastating war. Even George W Bush showed more restraints than this, I can see why historians will have such a poor opinion of Sheridan.

 

[Jan]

The thing that interests me about Garibaldi's alcoholism is that I don't understand it, I don't understand his craving.

FWIW, his alcoholism is realistically portrayed.

Then comes Sheridan's breakdown. Jebus H Christ, he's displaying Archer levels of stupidity! It's one thing to lose your temper in a stressful situation, it's another thing to lose your temper and start a devastating war. Even George W Bush showed more restraints than this, I can see why historians will have such a poor opinion of Sheridan.

Another FWIW, his stupidity, if you will, is that he and Delenn promised to go along with whatever the Alliance worlds decided. They've used that 'trust us, we keep our promises blah-blah' before but never with these consequences.

Jan

 

[hyzmarca]

It's also due to the fact that they structured the ISA poorly. It was designed to get things done rather than protect against mass stupidity. If the institution were better structured, they could have kept the issue bottled up in committee for months.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

We're into the real meat of the season now!

G'Kar choosing to return to Centauri Prime with Londo leads to an interesting scene where he says goodbye to Delenn.

I loved that little scene. I found their exchange very moving, particularly since it recalled an exchange in the pilot (which I don't think you watched). It's sort of an inverted version of that meeting in some ways...and quite heartwarming.

 

[Hound of UIster]

It's also due to the fact that they structured the ISA poorly. It was designed to get things done rather than protect against mass stupidity. If the institution were better structured, they could have kept the issue bottled up in committee for months.

Neither option seems preferable.

 

[TheGodBen]

Love is the Drug (**)

I know that JMS wanted to have a gay couple on the show, but Franklin and Garibaldi? I understand that they realised their love for one another when they connected about their addictions, and that was a very sweet scene, but it's a bit late to retcon in the fact that they're both bisexual. I could buy Franklin at a push, but Garibaldi? No way. The two of them falling so in love with one another so fast that they get engaged in the same episode made this absurd situation even less believable. I can't believe that it was made into an episode.

Luckily it wasn't and this was just a dream I had. Yes, I had a slash-fiction dream. I'm scared too.

 

[Sykonee]

Love is the Drug (**)

I know that JMS wanted to have a gay couple on the show, but Franklin and Garibaldi? I understand that they realised their love for one another when they connected about their addictions, and that was a very sweet scene, but it's a bit late to retcon in the fact that they're both bisexual. I could buy Franklin at a push, but Garibaldi? No way. The two of them falling so in love with one another so fast that they get engaged in the same episode made this absurd situation even less believable. I can't believe that it was made into an episode.

Luckily it wasn't and this was just a dream I had. Yes, I had a slash-fiction dream. I'm scared too.

Could be worse. At least the na'ka'leen feeder wasn't involved as well, turning your slash-fiction dream into a hentai.

 

[Kegg]

Could be worse. At least the na'ka'leen feeder wasn't involved as well, turning your slash-fiction dream into a hentai.

The thread title does say no spoilers, Skyonee.

 

[TheGodBen]

Movements of Fire and Shadow (****½)

Things are moving very quickly now, only a week after the outbreak of war and already Centauri Prime is being blowed up real good. In a way, things are happening a bit too quickly, Franklin and Lyta going to the Drazi homeworld and finding the bad eggs (literally) that are behind the Centuari attacks felt especially rushed.

Meanwhile, Delenn flies back to Minbar to order to construction of a new fleet of ship, presumably the ones that look like a big Klingon Bird of Prey with a third wing. I think that Crusade was set aboard such a ship, but is there enough time to build one of those beasts before the end of Babylon 5? Probably not. Anyway, Delenn's ship gets blowed up moderately and now they're stuck in hyperspace. Will she die? Probably not, but I said the same thing when Sheridan fell down the canyon on Z'ha'dum and people laughed at me.

Sheridan encourages the three main races involved in the war with the Centauri to work together on a joint strategy, and when they do he gets pissed off and decides to stop them. Make up your mind! Lochley shows up again to remind me that she still exists, which is unfortunate because I've forgotten everything about her. Who is she again?

The real meat of the episode takes place on Centauri Prime as Londo gets fitted for his evil shoulder eye. He tries to stop the Regent but nobody wants to help him, and things go pear-shaped when the Regent gets rid of the planet's defences in time for an enemy fleet to jump into orbit. The episode earned a score of 7 or 8 from me, but the cliffhanger bumped it up to a 9 just for how epic it was. What is going on? Why do the agents of darkness want Centauri Prime in ruins?

Scott Bakula: 73

 

[Forbin]

And would you believe TNT did a mid-season break at this point, and left us hanging for THREE FUCKING MONTHS?!?!?!?

 

[JoeD80]

Franklin and Lyta going to the Drazi homeworld and finding the bad eggs (literally) that are behind the Centuari attacks felt especially rushed.

Lyta's powers are reaching such a high level now, she can get things done quite fast. You'll see a bit more about her growing powers soon.

The Drazi having found the Shadow pods has always been lurking in the background, and now scenes from earlier in the season such as the Drazi bugging Londo's quarters, or Garibaldi being led to the Centauri when on the Drazi homeworld, or the Drazi having control of Raider ships will read a bit differently since it's now apparent that the Drazi had known about the control pods already and were holding back on the information for their own purposes.

 

[David cgc]

You know, I never connected those, especially the idea that the Raiders might've been under remote control. I don't think that quite works, though, because it was supposedly a long-term operation. Even if the Drazi were able to reverse-engineer the control pods and use them on the raider ships, they wouldn't have started getting them until after the Centuari raids began, which was after "The Paragon of Animals," never mind the ten years of piracy and subjugation that came before that.