Intersections is an amazing piece of work. It is like a short story that appeared in one of the classic science fiction magazines.
A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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Effective enough that I've nearly sworn off ever watching that episode ever again.
Though it wasn't the "season finale" per se, the way PTEN broke up the episodes, it essentially was a cliffhanger. "Intersections" aired in June 1997, and the next episode, "Between the Darkness and the Light", aired in October 1997.
The way the seasons are defined, and the way PTEN aired them, are two very different things.
For the longest time, until I rewatched the series for the first time on DVD, I thought the ep had been filmed in black and white. That would have worked for much of the ep's atmosphere and it has that sort of bleakness, that sort of "grey" mood to it.
Oh, they drove me NUTS!
Wow, it's not often that there's an episode that can be somebody's favourite and somebody else's least favourite.
Between the Darkness and the Light (**½)
Some good scenes at the beginning as Garibaldi must prove that he's not really evil, that makes the beginning of this episode worthwhile, but once he has proven his sort of innocence that plot goes limp. Garibaldi also proves that he really is a fan of 20th century TV because his plan to rescue Sheridan is to sneak into a heavily defended installation by entering through the secret caves, then he steals a uniform, and he somehow sweet-talks his way in. The Lord Daffy smiles upon him. Once he gets to Sheridan they escape without being caught, somehow, and then Sheridan gets off Mars and back to the rebel fleet, somehow. There's too many somehows in that description.
Meanwhile...
Ivanova leads an attack against some superior Earth ships but somehow wins (there's that word again), except for the part where she gets everyone on her ship killed. It's funny because Marcus runs straight to her and ignores all the Minbari on the bridge that could also be alive, and once he sees that Ivanova is still breathing, he picks her up and carries her out over all the possibly still alive Minbari. And now she's going to die, maybe. This show does take a lot of risks so it's very possible that Ivanova will be killed off, but at the same time this is a television show and on television an amazing cure shows up at the 11th hour more often than not. For now I'm going to file Ivanova's death under "I'll believe it when I see it".
Meanwhile...
Londo and G'Kar convince all the League worlds to join the Earth civil war on the side of the good guys because they are so gracious that Sheridan saved their worlds... even though Sheridan didn't really act to save either of their worlds. I got a very "Birth of the Federation" vibe from this scene, but Londo and G'Kar's absence from the show recently makes it feel a bit awkward.
Scott Bakula: 61
Notice the annoying continuity error with Garibaldi's hood at the beginning of the episode? One shot, it's off. Reverse shot, the hood is back on. Drives me crazy every time I see it.
And Ivanova's speech is my least favorite moment of the entire series, with a possible exception to come late in season five...
And Ivanova's speech is my least favorite moment of the entire series, with a possible exception to come late in season five...
Actually, any strongly polarizing episode will typically be somebody's favorite and another's least favorite. "Intersections in Real Time" is one of my least favorite B5 episodes, too. I would rather watch "Infection" any day.
Another example of this phenomenon is Voyager's "Endgame." That is my favorite episode of the series. Others, such as kimc, hate it with a passion.
Another example of this phenomenon is Voyager's "Endgame." That is my favorite episode of the series. Others, such as kimc, hate it with a passion.
Wow, it's not often that there's an episode that can be somebody's favourite and somebody else's least favourite.
Between the Darkness and the Light (**½)
Some good scenes at the beginning as Garibaldi must prove that he's not really evil, that makes the beginning of this episode worthwhile, but once he has proven his sort of innocence that plot goes limp. Garibaldi also proves that he really is a fan of 20th century TV because his plan to rescue Sheridan is to sneak into a heavily defended installation by entering through the secret caves, then he steals a uniform, and he somehow sweet-talks his way in. The Lord Daffy smiles upon him. Once he gets to Sheridan they escape without being caught, somehow, and then Sheridan gets off Mars and back to the rebel fleet, somehow. There's too many somehows in that description.
Meanwhile...
Ivanova leads an attack against some superior Earth ships but somehow wins (there's that word again), except for the part where she gets everyone on her ship killed. It's funny because Marcus runs straight to her and ignores all the Minbari on the bridge that could also be alive, and once he sees that Ivanova is still breathing, he picks her up and carries her out over all the possibly still alive Minbari. And now she's going to die, maybe. This show does take a lot of risks so it's very possible that Ivanova will be killed off, but at the same time this is a television show and on television an amazing cure shows up at the 11th hour more often than not. For now I'm going to file Ivanova's death under "I'll believe it when I see it".
Meanwhile...
Londo and G'Kar convince all the League worlds to join the Earth civil war on the side of the good guys because they are so gracious that Sheridan saved their worlds... even though Sheridan didn't really act to save either of their worlds. I got a very "Birth of the Federation" vibe from this scene, but Londo and G'Kar's absence from the show recently makes it feel a bit awkward.
Scott Bakula: 61
I agree on this review mostly. Rescue operation was too easy , too quick and too succesful. I mean once they have concluded that Garibaldi was innocent but brainwashed by Psi-Corps most logical thing Resistance should have done was to lock him up somewhere until war is over. Who knows that if Bester really cleaned the program complately in Garibaldi's mind or if Corps left any back up programs in his head ? And rescue itself....I have seen worse protected Main Stocking Areas but still why tunnels going there or Prison Facility itself had no security cameras , motion sensors etc ? They just went there in disguise , took Sheridan out , shot a few guards and escaped...That easy ?
It is as if JMS and rest of production staff realized that they had a few episodes left to finish this season and they were desperate to rescue Sheridan and redeem Garibaldi in the viewer's perspective as soon as possible
Not far from the truth, actually. They were under the impression they only had a few episodes left of the entire series. At the time of production, season 4 was going to be it. It wasn't until after they wrapped that season 5 was greenlit by TNT.
Whether or not that forced JMS' hand in the weaker aspects of the rescue and whatnot is up for debate, I think.
I think part of the brevity of the breakout was due to the necessity of compressing season 4. I imagine some of the things that went on here would have been stretched across two or even three episodes rather than bunch them all up in one.
However, most of the points raised were referred to in dialogue: -
That aside there are two x-factors in play that they couldn't plan for: Garibaldi and Lyta.
It's likely nobody outside of Bester and his inner circle at the Corps know what was done to Garibaldi so everyone is taking his betrayal of Sheridan at face value (why else have ISN make him the hero of the hour?) That's how he was able to find out where he was in the first place and what got him in the front door. Then of course Lyta getting to codes out of the guards. The resistance aren't exactly known to taking telepaths, even rogues out on operations.
As for how they got Sheridan off Mars, I imagine it was pretty much the same way he got on Mars in the first place. Assuming EF haven't twigged the Agamemnon has gone rogue it's a simple matter to get Sheridan on an atmospheric shuttle and co-ordinate a quick pick-up and jump out in low orbit. The shuttle and the Aggie could be gone before Mars traffic control notice anything is amiss and once they're in hyperspace they'd be damn near impossible to track.
I'd hardly call the operation "easy." Garibaldi got himself stabbed in the back and they were made on their way out the door and had to shoot their way past the cell block security checkpoint.
When it comes to Ivanova "somehow" defeating the Advance Destroyer Group, remember than these things were more advanced than the other EF Omegas, not the White Stars. The White Stars are hybrids of Vorlon and Minbari tech. Minbari tech is already about 1000 years ahead of Earth tech. Plus as you can tell by looking at them, the Advanced Destroyers were just normal Omegas with Shadow tech essentially grafted on. One imagines the Shadows didn't exactly oversee the building of these things as the Vorlons did with the White Stars. Those were fully integrated and specifically designed warships; The Advanced Omegas were much more of an ad hoc improvisation.
However, they're absolutely tougher to take out than a normal Omega (stronger armor, more powerful weapons, targeting etc) and they outnumbered the White Stars which make it a perilously even match. She just barely manages to take them all out and at the cost of a lot of lives. So it's almost a pyrrhic victory in that sense.
However, most of the points raised were referred to in dialogue: -
"Earthgov's been expanding their underground facilities blasting to open up more usable areas."
"We've cracked some access tunnels. The ones to bring in water, take out waste. They've got an independent air supply in case of an attack on the dome and air pressure's compromised."
So the tunnels are a closed system that connect Fort Walters to a larger oxygen/water supply infrastructure. We're talking probably miles and miles of access tunnels and watching every square inch is impracticable so they concentrate on what they can do: -
"They've got patrols that sweep the area every couple of hours. And try not to fire any PPGs. The heat sensors will pick up any weapons fired."
Regular security patrols and heat sensors mean this access way IS being watched, but there's only so much you can do with a limited number of people. Remember that Sheridan was only being held there temporarily until he could be moved to a much more secure location on Earth. More than anything else they're banking on nobody knowing he's there and even if the Resistance did find out, Earthforce would probably expect them to try breaching the dome and storming in the front door.
That aside there are two x-factors in play that they couldn't plan for: Garibaldi and Lyta.
It's likely nobody outside of Bester and his inner circle at the Corps know what was done to Garibaldi so everyone is taking his betrayal of Sheridan at face value (why else have ISN make him the hero of the hour?) That's how he was able to find out where he was in the first place and what got him in the front door. Then of course Lyta getting to codes out of the guards. The resistance aren't exactly known to taking telepaths, even rogues out on operations.
As for how they got Sheridan off Mars, I imagine it was pretty much the same way he got on Mars in the first place. Assuming EF haven't twigged the Agamemnon has gone rogue it's a simple matter to get Sheridan on an atmospheric shuttle and co-ordinate a quick pick-up and jump out in low orbit. The shuttle and the Aggie could be gone before Mars traffic control notice anything is amiss and once they're in hyperspace they'd be damn near impossible to track.
I'd hardly call the operation "easy." Garibaldi got himself stabbed in the back and they were made on their way out the door and had to shoot their way past the cell block security checkpoint.
When it comes to Ivanova "somehow" defeating the Advance Destroyer Group, remember than these things were more advanced than the other EF Omegas, not the White Stars. The White Stars are hybrids of Vorlon and Minbari tech. Minbari tech is already about 1000 years ahead of Earth tech. Plus as you can tell by looking at them, the Advanced Destroyers were just normal Omegas with Shadow tech essentially grafted on. One imagines the Shadows didn't exactly oversee the building of these things as the Vorlons did with the White Stars. Those were fully integrated and specifically designed warships; The Advanced Omegas were much more of an ad hoc improvisation.
However, they're absolutely tougher to take out than a normal Omega (stronger armor, more powerful weapons, targeting etc) and they outnumbered the White Stars which make it a perilously even match. She just barely manages to take them all out and at the cost of a lot of lives. So it's almost a pyrrhic victory in that sense.
The defector who tells Ivanova that some of the captains are fake defectors could have been a plant, either to sow discord or to delay battle while captains were vetted and the fleet reorganized to prevent betrayal.
Ivanova's decision to attack with just the White Star fleet prevented any such defectors turning during combat while giving her force tactical surprise. This is particularly true if by some odd chance Clark had other means to turn some of the defector ships.
The destruction of such a large force would seem to have sealed Clark's fate. It appeared to be his last hope for a counter-offensive. After that, he was condemned to re-enact his version of the Battle of the Line.
If you look at the story, most of the heroes at some point have the entire course of the war resting on their decisions. Even Corwin, when the task force is coming in Severed Dreams, as the officer actually running the command dome, or Zack, when he sets up the Night Watch.
Ivanova's decision to attack with just the White Star fleet prevented any such defectors turning during combat while giving her force tactical surprise. This is particularly true if by some odd chance Clark had other means to turn some of the defector ships.
The destruction of such a large force would seem to have sealed Clark's fate. It appeared to be his last hope for a counter-offensive. After that, he was condemned to re-enact his version of the Battle of the Line.
If you look at the story, most of the heroes at some point have the entire course of the war resting on their decisions. Even Corwin, when the task force is coming in Severed Dreams, as the officer actually running the command dome, or Zack, when he sets up the Night Watch.
This was the eight minutes from the previous episode that got moved here.
Saving them from the Vorlons & Shadows destroying them all doesn't count? Remember, they both had started destroying planets in their path, so Sheridan et. al convincing them to leave beyond the rim did save them.
Well, Lyta knew. She can sense Bester's blocks so surely she would sense residual issues. And it wasn't a reprogramming as stated by the Psi Cop, just an intensifying of Garibaldi's natural paranoia and Bester occasionally nudging him in the right direction with his coded transmissions.Can said:
At the same time, Sheridan had to choose between saving Centauri Prime or Coriana, both of which would be attacked by the Vorlons at the same time, and Sheridan choose Coriana, leaving Londo to deal with the Vorlons on his own. Sure, it all worked out in the end, but Sheridan didn't try to save Londo's world, that was a sacrifice he was willing to make for the greater good.
Endgame (***½)
Captain Sheridan and his crew finally return home to Earth. No Borg spheres, magical time disruptions or batmobile armour were used in doing so.
This is an exciting episode and a thrilling conclusion to the Earth Civil War arc, but there are certain things that hold it back for me. Firstly, there's the telepaths that Sheridan smuggled aboard all the Earthforce ships. I find it difficult to believe that nobody on any of the 30 destroyers took the sheet off the chamber to see what was underneath. One or two ships I could buy, but all 30? That's a stretch. And what happened to the telepaths? Were they all killed by the crews of their ships? Were any of them killed? The episode suggests that at least one of them was shot, but it doesn't explain any further.
Next comes Marcus, I must admit that I'm confused about what happened there. Marcus received a transmission from Babylon 5, but when he leaves Sheridan can't send a transmission back to Babylon 5 to warn them because of jamming? And Sheridan can't send one shuttle or Starfury to follow Marcus far enough back out of jamming range to warn B5? And when Marcus gets back to B5 he knows where to find the magical device from season 1 (even though Medlab has moved since then) and how to operate it? I must confess that I have had it spoiled for me that Marcus was going to die around this time when I accidentally read a post that started with "Marcus' death...", so I'm not shocked by this turn of events. Still, it's an effective bait and switch by JMS; pretend that Ivanova is going to die, kill Marcus instead.
When President Clark shot himself in the head the only thing I felt was bad about the fact that it didn't make me feel anything. I didn't even feel pleased by his death, so small was my interest in that character. I felt like I should have felt something, but I didn't, and that harmed the episode a bit for me. Then he went and ordered his scorched Earth order, an act of ultimate evil, yet another turn of events that I didn't care about. Yes, I know that Hitler issued a scorched Earth policy and blamed the German people for his own failings, so it is possible that a guy could be that insane, but I just didn't find it interesting. Watching Clark's descent into madness would have been more interesting than him just being mad, and since this show decided not to focus on Clark I never got to witness that descent. The episode ends with Sheridan almost sacrificing himself in order to save the US eastern seaboard but he was rescued by his old mentor, thereby ruining the best opportunity Earth had to get rid of Atlantic City.
Scott Bakula: 63
As Joe said:
jms said:
They're still frozen.
Why would Sheridan waste resources like that when he's busy trying to mount an offensive just to follow someone going on a personal errand? Sheridan assumed he needed all his resources for the battle and figures Marcus can take care of himself.
Marcus watched breifing videos about it after learning it existed, so yes he knows.
As Edgars said, Clark was never the real problem anyway. There really wasn't much to learn about the character. From the beginning he was an opportunist who was waiting for Santiago to be removed just to get the rush of power, and he was being pushed along by Psi Corps. (There's a newspaper in the background of season one saying something like "Psi Corps endorses Clark for Vice President" and of course we later see a Psi Cop with Morden in Clark's office).
To me, at the time, just one thought, "it's over". But I don't think you were intended to feel some big catharsis at that particular moment, since it was clear that Clark wasn't the big engine of evil. That wasn't Anakin Skywalker throwing Palpatine down that shaft. It wasn't even Hitler suiciding in the bunker.
Frankly, it felt like I felt after the announcement that Saddam Hussein had been hung.
Huh.
Not much satisfaction. The real work begins.
^If you like you can pretend Atlantic City was nuked around the same time as San Diego.The episode ends with Sheridan almost sacrificing himself in order to save the US eastern seaboard but he was rescued by his old mentor, thereby ruining the best opportunity Earth had to get rid of Atlantic City.
RE: Jamming - Keep in mind that the whole time this was going on the fleet was on the move. They didn't hit the jammers until after they got inside Mars orbit and Marcus completed the download while they were still at Mars itself and spent part of the journey in system sifting though the relevant reports. As for how he knew where it was and how to use it, he did tell the computer to "Play all entries under this subject heading." before sending Lennier off to see Delenn. From that it's fair to assume he'd read all of Franklin's notes on the device by the time he got to the station.
It might also be worth pointing out that certain thing are moving at the "speed of plot" here. Technically it should have taken Marcus a good two days to get back to B5 (as established in 'Messages from Earth') and it probably took the fleet a few hours to get from Mars to Earth rather than the mere seconds that was shown on screen. It's all just time cuts for the sake of drama, but it can get a little confusing.
As for sending a ship after him, JMS addressed that and other issues here, but in a nutshell it's not a good idea to intentionally divert even a small number of forces in a needless errand while going into battle, especially after you just lost one of your medium cruisers too. That one fighter could have been the one that made all the difference.
As for the telepaths; from what I gather the general military practice is to check cargo loads at the depo before they're loaded. Once you get past that they're not normally checked at the other end as according to the military mind, they've already been cleared and fiddling with military hardware that you don't recognise (especially with what's been going on at the time) is a very good way to get yourself demoted, killed, or "re-educated" by Psi Corp and I imagine most EF QMs have become very adapt at not seeing anything unusual, just like prison guards have a habit of going deaf the night before a prisoner turns up beaten or dead in their cell.
As for what happened to the teeps, I don't think it'd count as a spoiler to say the next episode implies that a fair proportion of them were killed in the same fashion as the one on the Apollo. They never mention a full head count but it's clear Sheridan used them fully prepared that it was likely to get them all killed.
Endgame is a brilliant episode. IMO 
One of my favorite B5 episodes, and a thrilling conclusion to the civil war arc.
One of my favorite B5 episodes, and a thrilling conclusion to the civil war arc.
I decided to stop wanting to know more about President Clark after reading this article, especially these quotes:
What the hell? Sure, the guy wasn't evil 100% of the time, but if there's one man in history where you must absolutely not disregard his negative side it's HITLER!
Rising Star (****)
It really feels like this episode was a series finale for a show that still hoped to continue, it closed of many storylines and gave some closure to the characters yet it still plants seeds for stories that might arise if the show was to continue. It's a very odd thing to watching knowing that this show is going to continue for another year! It's like Scrubs, a show that had a great finale to end the show in season 8, but then got picked up for another season. Dear gods, I hope that season 5 of B5 is better than season 9 of Scrubs!
The new President of Earth proves the notion that things never change and that a man that fought for the freedom of his people will not be properly recognised for his act by his government. It's inspiring stuff, the kind of thing that makes you want to sit in a dark room all day listening to Morrisey. Sheridan uses all this to his advantage in order to become the President of a newly formed Interstellar Alliance, which puts him on a similar political standing to Herman Van Rompuy (don't bother Googling him, he's quite dull). Even though the show has been building up to this ever since the Shadow War ended, all of this happens very quickly in this episode, perhaps too quickly. The same can be said of Londo and G'Kar's friendship, which seems to have happened while the show focused on Sheridan's war with Earth.
My favourite moment in this episode involved Ivanova, and it's not often I get to say that. I just found myself really enjoying her scene as she mourned for Marcus, it felt like the most natural thing her character has done... ever. I find it a bt weird that Sheridan and Delenn got married off screen, and even weirder that G'Kar spied on them. To be honest, that's a bit disturbing. But overall this was a satisfying series finale... which is an odd thing to say considering it's only the penultimate episode of season 4.
(By the way, I'm not sure what the R1 DVD menu is like, but the R2 version shows several characters morphing into one another. Is anyone else disturbed at the point when Ivanova morphs into Marcus? It looks like she's rapidly growing a beard.)
What the hell? Sure, the guy wasn't evil 100% of the time, but if there's one man in history where you must absolutely not disregard his negative side it's HITLER!Rising Star (****)
It really feels like this episode was a series finale for a show that still hoped to continue, it closed of many storylines and gave some closure to the characters yet it still plants seeds for stories that might arise if the show was to continue. It's a very odd thing to watching knowing that this show is going to continue for another year! It's like Scrubs, a show that had a great finale to end the show in season 8, but then got picked up for another season. Dear gods, I hope that season 5 of B5 is better than season 9 of Scrubs!
The new President of Earth proves the notion that things never change and that a man that fought for the freedom of his people will not be properly recognised for his act by his government. It's inspiring stuff, the kind of thing that makes you want to sit in a dark room all day listening to Morrisey. Sheridan uses all this to his advantage in order to become the President of a newly formed Interstellar Alliance, which puts him on a similar political standing to Herman Van Rompuy (don't bother Googling him, he's quite dull). Even though the show has been building up to this ever since the Shadow War ended, all of this happens very quickly in this episode, perhaps too quickly. The same can be said of Londo and G'Kar's friendship, which seems to have happened while the show focused on Sheridan's war with Earth.
My favourite moment in this episode involved Ivanova, and it's not often I get to say that. I just found myself really enjoying her scene as she mourned for Marcus, it felt like the most natural thing her character has done... ever. I find it a bt weird that Sheridan and Delenn got married off screen, and even weirder that G'Kar spied on them. To be honest, that's a bit disturbing. But overall this was a satisfying series finale... which is an odd thing to say considering it's only the penultimate episode of season 4.
(By the way, I'm not sure what the R1 DVD menu is like, but the R2 version shows several characters morphing into one another. Is anyone else disturbed at the point when Ivanova morphs into Marcus? It looks like she's rapidly growing a beard.)
I decided to stop wanting to know more about President Clark after reading this article, especially these quotes:
That's an Indian thing. Apparently, the "Führer" ist quite popular on the subcontinent even today. In large parts it has something to do with Nazi Germany fighting and almost defeating their oppressors from the British Empire.
To quote Mahatma Gandhi: "I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."
"Adolf" and/or "Hitler" are also used as given names in India. A relatively well-known example is the politician Adolf Lu Hitler Marak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Lu_Hitler_Marak
Alright, sorry for this little discourse... back to B5.
I have said it before, I will say it again... Season 5 is roughly comparabale to Season 2. Which means you'll need some patience in the first half.
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