Dude, you and I have been at this with FSM for quite some time. Have we ever once gotten an explanation for what the mysterious agenda is?
a new hire for a new show
- Thread starter Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Dude, you and I have been at this with FSM for quite some time. Have we ever once gotten an explanation for what the mysterious agenda is?
I know it's a vain hope but I still had it...
I respect your tenacity.
It comes down to politics. People who complain are afraid that the shows are being a launching pad for liberal propaganda in order to impact real world thinking above any artistic creative reasons. It's all about the real world divide that has spread into every aspect of society and this is how it's also spread into how people view movies and tv shows. What use to be seen maybe as a bias is now seen as a agenda. I mean it's not exactly just a right wing thing exactly. People's need to deconstruct and point out problematic stuff in old movies and shows is kind of how it has impacted those more on the left. But this agenda stuff on the right tends to be fueled more by paranoia and a fear of being replaced and not being represented in the future than it has to do with fictional characters. I suspect anyways.
Jason
Sighs...
I believe that what @Jayson1 suggests is part of it. But it’s also because there is a genuine fear of being threatened. For millennia one race and gender has been in control: the white male. Now, this is changing. Women are gaining control. Minorities are gaining control. And the white man, who once controlled everything is suddenly just a voice among many.
As a white male, I say: Who the fuck cares if others have a voice?
As a white male, I say: Who the fuck cares if others have a voice?
I agree and they defiantly have a eye on those changing demographic stats. Not only a fear of being replaced but a fear of payback for past sins.
Jason
Same here. But what upsets me more is the tendency for this to be aligned with more right wing politics, which leaves more right leaning people, like me, associated with it.
Well many people aren't exactly happy with the far left either so their is defiantly some changes coming in the future. I think America will go from a 2 party country to a 3 party country. Far right, moderate and Far left. I think that is the ultimate end result to the political divide we have right now.
Jason
Jason
That’s fair. You really can’t put any group into a box. And I apologize if I did that. Truth be told: left, right, whatever your leaning is, there are those who can be intolerant in your group.
I lean left but I find some of the more progressive things from this side to be way too OTT. I’m far more moderate.
When @Flying Spaghetti Monster says he's not opposed to female leads or female creators, I actually believe him. I believe he's not consciously mysogynistic. And I do believe that it is pandering he is opposed to.
What he fails to see, though, is that pandering is part of a producers job. A producer has to make sure a production sells, therefore they have to actually think in superficial demographics and statistics. And yes, a producer comes up with "female-led" first, because that will sell. Public relations do their part. It is not their fault that there is a divisive climate in society, but they do use it.
Now, it is the job of the creators to actually make sure that this dictate doesn't end in soulless pandering, but to actually create something of substance out of it.
In the case of this show, we only have the pandering headline right now. The rest is being worked on, by what appears to be a very competent writer. Whether or not the show will be of substance or remain soulless pandering, that remains to be seen.
In the meantime, though, the actual mysogynists are using the obvious pandering to convince @Flying Spaghetti Monster that there's a political agenda of the producers, when their only agenda is selling product. And over time, good and open-minded people get pulled into the closed-mindedness. I know, because I've seen this happen to a friend of mine IRL.
What he fails to see, though, is that pandering is part of a producers job. A producer has to make sure a production sells, therefore they have to actually think in superficial demographics and statistics. And yes, a producer comes up with "female-led" first, because that will sell. Public relations do their part. It is not their fault that there is a divisive climate in society, but they do use it.
Now, it is the job of the creators to actually make sure that this dictate doesn't end in soulless pandering, but to actually create something of substance out of it.
In the case of this show, we only have the pandering headline right now. The rest is being worked on, by what appears to be a very competent writer. Whether or not the show will be of substance or remain soulless pandering, that remains to be seen.
In the meantime, though, the actual mysogynists are using the obvious pandering to convince @Flying Spaghetti Monster that there's a political agenda of the producers, when their only agenda is selling product. And over time, good and open-minded people get pulled into the closed-mindedness. I know, because I've seen this happen to a friend of mine IRL.
Not only that but you have to take what even writers or actors say with a grain of salt into how the show or movie will look. When Patrick Stewart talked about Picard in that interview he made it seem like the Federation was going to be this dark bad thing because of Brexit but that wasn't really reflected in the show. The Federation wasn't anymore damaged than it was say when the concept of Section 31 was introduced.
Jason
Jason
At this point, I think it's perfectly reasonable to promote the fact that this is going to have a female lead. So far every Star Wars series has either been an ensemble piece or had a male lead.
Droids: C-3PO and R2-D2 are consistently referred to as male.
Ewoks: I haven't seen this, but I believe it was either focused on Wicket or was an ensemble with him and his friends.
Clone Wars: An ensemble, although we did get some episodes focused on women like Ahsoka, and Padme.
Rebels: Mainly focused on Ezra,a teenage boy but was also kind of a ensemble.
Freemaker Adventures: Ensemble focused on the Freemaker siblings, which included 2 brothers and a sister.
Resistance: Focused on Kazuda Xiono, a teenage boy.
The Mandalorian: Focused on Din Djarin, a male Mandalorian.
Our two officially announced series are also focused on men, Cassian Andor, and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
The majority of those has all been released during Kathleen Kennedy's time in charge, so for someone who is supposed obsessed with letting women take over the franchise, she's sure done a shitty job of it when it comes to the TV side.
I also believe they have all had men as their showrunners, so that's another place where she's failed her agenda.
Droids: C-3PO and R2-D2 are consistently referred to as male.
Ewoks: I haven't seen this, but I believe it was either focused on Wicket or was an ensemble with him and his friends.
Clone Wars: An ensemble, although we did get some episodes focused on women like Ahsoka, and Padme.
Rebels: Mainly focused on Ezra,a teenage boy but was also kind of a ensemble.
Freemaker Adventures: Ensemble focused on the Freemaker siblings, which included 2 brothers and a sister.
Resistance: Focused on Kazuda Xiono, a teenage boy.
The Mandalorian: Focused on Din Djarin, a male Mandalorian.
Our two officially announced series are also focused on men, Cassian Andor, and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
The majority of those has all been released during Kathleen Kennedy's time in charge, so for someone who is supposed obsessed with letting women take over the franchise, she's sure done a shitty job of it when it comes to the TV side.
I also believe they have all had men as their showrunners, so that's another place where she's failed her agenda.
ENT was going to be about Jackson Archer and T'Pau until it wasn't. Early announcements and rumors don't mean a whole lot in the grander scheme of television and film production and marketing. What we hear now doesn't necessarily mean that much when all we know is one or two names.
Yes, attempts to challenge the status quo are always more divisive by their nature. Duh.
You're right, you can't include everyone. But you can make an effort. Including more of the demographic that consists of greater than half the population of the world would probably be a good starting point, though.
How is something being escapist harmed by being more inclusive of women?
Would you feel the same way if they were more vocal about feminine empowerment or making a female-centric movie?
You don't care as long as they sit at the back of the bus and don't bother anyone by speaking up for themselves.
Because it's still early. They just announced the showrunner. Here's a crazy idea, why don't you wait until they do release story information before you do your usual freakout?
Jesus Christ, do you hear yourself?
You have the option to not care about any of those things because you're a straight white cisgendered male who is in the dominant group that is most catered to. You say you don't like pandering but the whole country panders to you by default.
Oriental? Holy fuck dude, get out of the 1950s.
I don't believe you that you were happy about it (your track record says otherwise), and there absolutely were people calling for more actors of Asian descent to appear. You just missed it because you don't read anything that would have made it obvious that no one under age 85 calls Asian people Orientals anymore.
Oh, and I forgot to reply to something you said in a previous post:
Lucas was full of cynicism about Vietnam and Watergate and Nixon when he wrote Star Wars.
https://time.com/4975813/star-wars-politics-watergate-george-lucas/
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America being the Nazi style evil empire certainly sounds optimistic.
I agree where it comes to him derailing other threads. But this is his own thread, so I don't care about responding here. Honestly, if he's going to do it anyway, I'd prefer if he just limited all his anti-feminist / anti-diversity crap to one thread and left the others alone for people to actually talk about Star Wars.
ETA: This is not a mod instruction, since I'm not a mod in this forum. Just stating my preferences.
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You've got nerve saying that some alleged political agenda is like a deadly disease. Stop watching or caring if this all bothers you so much. If I don't like something or the direction it's heading I stop watching or listening or at least don't compare changes in those shows or movies to cancer. The world has mostly moved on past people who think that hiring women to produce entertainment is done to harm human beings with penises and too much time on their hands to complain.
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