A new B5 series on the horizon?

[Reverend]

^Well, if nothing else it would have provided JMS with a rather convenient "out" for that character going into season two.

Perhaps he suspected something ahead of time, or this is simply one of those "trapdoors" he builds into all the main characters?

I was really digging Crusade, but I had a feeling early on that it was too cool (in other words, too much geek heaven) to last. I would like to see that arc completed, even with a suddenly different cast, or restarted with a new cast and then completed. Not holding my breath though.

I'm still shocked there wasn't at least some kind of reference to what happened with the stuff from Crusade in The Lost Tales. I've never actually watched Crusade, but I am familiar enough to recognize stuff from it. I loved B5, but the stores I got the seasons from never had Crusade and I never got around to ordering it from Amazon.

Well the events of Crusade, had it lasted a full five years would have only just ended around the time of Lost Tales (literally within a month or two) so I suppose there's some logic to that but think about it for a second. In what context should any mention of the crew of the Excalibur be made? It'd be a bit odd for Lochely to mention it to the priest or for Sheridan to mention it to the Prince Regent. It wouldn't serve the story and would stick out like a sour thumb.

Having said that, the mere presence of Galen and the nature of his activities gives us a hint as to how his role has changed in five years. Additionally, it should be noted that Lost Tales takes place smack in the middle of the events of the 'Legions of Fire' novels which is very closely (yet still peripherally) linked to the Sheridan/Vintari storyline.

Incidentally, there are references to Crusade in the third Psi Corps novel and I think one or two of the Centauri novels, but all they amount to is an acknowledgement that the plague was cured (though Earth remained under a quarantine of sorts) and that the crew of the Excalibur would later write books about their experiences.

 

[Harvey]

This is the first I've heard of behind the scenes issues with Cole. Honestly, if they were intending to continue the show without him, I'm happy it was cancelled. Seeing him in a serious, leading role was one of the best things about the series.

 

[Jan]

No denying that Cole's an excellent actor and did a great job with the character. But as succsessful as the switch was in B5, I'd be open to seeing it happen again.

I'd actually sort of enjoy seeing what Daniel Dae Kim might have done with the Captain's role. His being a telepath could have been a good source of tension.

Jan

 

[Reverend]

While I think Daniel Dae Kim would have done a fantastic job in the lead role, from an internal continuity POV I can't see him being promoted to Captain if they "trap-doored" Gideon. He was after all, only a Lieutenant, which is three ranks below a Captain. Plus, assuming for a second he enlisted in EF right after the end of the telepath crisis and immediately earned his commission, he would have only been a serving officer for two years tops (the Teep War ended in 2264/5, yes?) Not the kind of person EarthDome or probably even Sheridan would allow in the Excalibur's command seat.

The way I see it they'd either get stuck with someone who eventually turns out to be *in* on the whole Shadow-tech conspiracy thing, or they'd transfer Lochley over from B5. The third alternative I suppose would be some other random Earthforce officer, perhaps a very much more by-the-book than Gideon...but that sounds a little too much like Sheridan's season 2 arc.

Actually with the the first option you could end up with Matheson in command if the new guy is gotten rid of when the ship is black balled and goes rogue.

This is the first I've heard of behind the scenes issues with Cole. Honestly, if they were intending to continue the show without him, I'm happy it was cancelled. Seeing him in a serious, leading role was one of the best things about the series.

I don't think there's any specific complaints, just a lot on in-between the lines stuff in a lot of interviews. The closest i can recall to an actual grievance is a mention somewhere of him getting out of dodge pretty damn fast when shooting stopped, but I can't remember if that was the first or second time round.

 

[Angel4576]

Wow, what a barrage of emotions from just a few short sentences;

Last year, the studio offered a full season of a new and rebooted B5 as part of a new distribution venue they were creating

Yay!

We'd have a full season, a big budget, and total creative control.

Wow!

The negotiations (not between us but between the participants of the venue) dragged on for over a year.

Uh oh.

finally, the participants couldn't make the math work. So we and the other three shows that they were hoping to put out there got set aside.

Nooooooooooooo!

I've told the studio that if this isn't going to move ahead, there's something else they need to consider and there's a very informal negotiation going on now in that regard.

Yay!

With the decline of the Stargate empire, and Trek playing out on the bigscreen, t'would be good if we could get B5 back in some form, even if does take a few years.

 

[timothy]

I would love to see a repackaged babylon 5 dvd collection with new special features. including all the movies and crusade.

 

[Angel4576]

Or a Star Trek style re-doing of the FX so that we could finally get the show in high definition!

 

[Harvey]

I don't think there's any specific complaints, just a lot on in-between the lines stuff in a lot of interviews. The closest i can recall to an actual grievance is a mention somewhere of him getting out of dodge pretty damn fast when shooting stopped, but I can't remember if that was the first or second time round.

It was a sinking ship, so I can't blame him. I read somewhere unreliable once (probably IMDB) that he liked the role so much that he wore Gideon's ring in his next role -- the boss from Office Space. I'm not sure if it's true, though.

 

[Kegg]

This is the first I've heard of behind the scenes issues with Cole. Honestly, if they were intending to continue the show without him, I'm happy it was cancelled. Seeing him in a serious, leading role was one of the best things about the series.

I liked Cole okay, but I would have been perfectly fine with Crusade without him. Max Eilerson really was the show's strong point, character-wise, and on some level JMS's waspish, brown-haired hero space commanders kind of blur together for me anyway.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The way I see it they'd either get stuck with someone who eventually turns out to be *in* on the whole Shadow-tech conspiracy thing, or they'd transfer Lochley over from B5.

I'd imagine it'd be Lochley since JMS did mention that he'd considered Tracy Soggins as the captain of the Excalibur at some point, iirc.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I saw great potential with Crusade. I loved Daniel Dae Kim's Lt. and was totally enamored of Max Eilerson. The loss of Crusade overall is what saddens me most about the B5 universe.

As a fan I have come to see JMS as bombastic, but the man still created one of my favorite Sci-Fi shows.

I hope that whatever he is working on makes it off the ground.

I know that if it does I will sit there with the popcorn at the ready.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I saw great potential with Crusade. I loved Daniel Dae Kim's Lt. and was totally enamored of Max Eilerson. The loss of Crusade overall is what saddens me most about the B5 universe.

As a fan I have come to see JMS as bombastic, but the man still created one of my favorite Sci-Fi shows.

I hope that whatever he is working on makes it off the ground.

I know that if it does I will sit there with the popcorn at the ready.

I, too, saw great potential in "Crusade" because had it continued it would've allowed for other writers and other voices besides JMS to contribute to the B5 universe. Moreover, I was excited that JMS was also interested in buying literary SF short stories to be adapted into "Crusade" adventures. Well, at least in the early stages of the series, but then the spoo hit the fan with TNT.

 

[Reverend]

^To be fair I think JMS had very similar notions when they started B5 and let's be honest, most of the *bad* episodes in the first two seasons were the non-JMS ones. I've never been totally clear on his reasoning for becoming the sole writer by the end of season two. I think I've read him saying it was the only way to keep all the various threads straight, but I can't help but wonder if quality control was a factor.

I don't mean to suggest that *all* the non-Joe scripts were bad or that only JMS can write for B5 (if nothing else the four novelists responsible for the canon books have proven that false) and indeed, some of the best Crusade episodes were not penned by the Great Maker.

Oh and put me down as another who appreciated Crusade's potential. It's just one of those unfortunate things that it was doomed from the outset. I'd actually go as far as saying that the cast was damn near perfect (save for that tedious pilot blokey who only appeared twice or thrice.) Max, is a clear favourite. Definitely got a bit of a Kerr Avon vibe from that guy.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^To be fair I think JMS had very similar notions when they started B5 and let's be honest, most of the *bad* episodes in the first two seasons were the non-JMS ones.

If I recall early interviews, such as in Cinefantastique, JMS was interested in getting contemporary literary SF writers, such as Neal Stephenson, to pen "Babylon 5" episodes but not necessarily adapt previously published stories. Many early interviews had JMS saying that they could tell the stories they wanted to here where they couldn't on Trek, or what was coined the "Star Trek grudge show."

Upon reflection, I don't know how necessary it was for JMS to write the entire last three seasons, excluding "Day of the Dead." Other showrunners/Executive Producers are able to create a stable of writers and still maintain the vision/plot threads they want — an example is Matt Weiner and "Mad Men," particularly the first and third seasons.

But I am sure JMS had his reasons, which he thought perfectly valid at the time. While I've come over the years to see the cracks a bit more in the writing, I have to applaud the man for meeting the challenge.

It was a Herculean feet and a marathon that damn near killed him.

Of course, JMS had similar notions of adapting previous literary stories for his reboot of "Star Trek."

I'd love see "Babylon 5" return to television or whatever other distribution, but with a less heavy arc with room for more anthology-like stories to be told in its wonderful backdrop — the Naked City in space. And for other voices, such as Stephenson, John Scalzi, Cory Doctorow and others, to dip into the universe and tell the stories they want to tell.

 

[Harvey]

Well, I think part of the problem when it came to writers on Babylon 5 was that there wasn't a writer's room for people to hash out ideas or work out how their scripts would fit into the greater arc. That can be fine when you're running a show like Star Trek (or a lot of 60s television, really) where there's not a lot of continuity between episodes and things don't change from week to week, or even season to season, but that didn't seem to work on a series like Babylon 5.

Even Larry DiTillio -- the executive story editor for two years -- wrote episodes that felt like they came from an outsider. A show like Mad Men or Breaking Bad has a whole stable of writers, but they work together, not apart from one another.

 

[Snatcher42]

Definitely got a bit of a Kerr Avon vibe from that guy.

The whole show had a strong Blake's 7 vibe, and a I think would have gone even more in that direction had it continued. Shame it didn't get the chance.

 

[JoeD80]

I've never been totally clear on his reasoning for becoming the sole writer by the end of season two. I think I've read him saying it was the only way to keep all the various threads straight, but I can't help but wonder if quality control was a factor.

He said it was because he wasn't clear on where one episode would end and the next would start, so he had a hard time knowing exactly what to assign to which writer. Also, WB asked him to write the whole third season. He planned to go back to more writers in season four, until he was told to wrap everything up.

there wasn't a writer's room for people to hash out ideas or work out how their scripts would fit into the greater arc.

Joe assigned stories to the writers.

 

[Harvey]

there wasn't a writer's room for people to hash out ideas or work out how their scripts would fit into the greater arc.

Joe assigned stories to the writers.

Surely. Your point, though?

EDIT: That sounds flippant. Wasn't meant to be.

 

[JoeD80]

You said that that the problem by not being in a writers' room was they couldn't hash out ideas or work out how their scripts would fit in with the greater arc. But Joe wanted to go where he felt and assigned the other writers specific parts of the arc; he already knew how those stories would fit in with the larger canvas. It's not an inherently problematic approach one way or the other.

 

[Harvey]

If I thought the approach worked, I'd agree with you, but I don't think it did. Most of the standalone episodes from the first two seasons don't contribute anything long-lasting to the whole, because the actual writers of the episodes went off on their own to write the actual episode. They're just a digression from the narrative.

It would be like devoting an episode of Breaking Bad to Walt dealing with a student who was unhappy with his grade on a test. It might be interesting, but it's not exactly relevant.