A more "serious" version of "Lower Decks"?

[Nenya]

If the show was more "serious", a la TAS, from the start, would you still watch it? In my opinion, cartoons tend to be sitcoms, especially in regards to the show's comedy. Then again, we have shows like AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER that seems to strike a fine line between being "serious" and "funny". Then again, the art style can make the difference between being seen as "comedic" and not.

Am I making any sense on this? I do like the show, but I wonder if having more serious 'Trek means you can't have a serious cartoon, or something.

Probably. You can have comedy in Trek and still be taken seriously (The Magnificent Ferengi). Lower Decks doesn't work for me because it seems like they are laughing at Trek rather than with it. It's like the characters are Trekkies and know they are in a Star Trek show.

 

[XCV330]

Probably. You can have comedy in Trek and still be taken seriously (The Magnificent Ferengi). Lower Decks doesn't work for me because it seems like they are laughing at Trek rather than with it. It's like the characters are Trekkies and know they are in a Star Trek show.

I get the impression instead that Starfleet has been around so long that it's developed its own mythology within the service. Reliving the great actions of past crews or talking about them is the culture and the entertainment.

 

[Nenya]

I get the impression instead that Starfleet has been around so long that it's developed its own mythology within the service. Reliving the great actions of past crews or talking about them is the culture and the entertainment.

I guess that could explain lines like, "What is this, Kirk in the 2260's?" while fighting some aliens.

 

[Kor]

That kind of thing started years ago with VOY's smarmy references to Kirk and co.

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

I get the impression instead that Starfleet has been around so long that it's developed its own mythology within the service. Reliving the great actions of past crews or talking about them is the culture and the entertainment.

I mean, that's the whole idea that Roddenberry set forth in the TMP novel that Kirk's mission logs had been dramatized and overblown in their presentation of Kirk and company's heroics. It would only follow that such stories would be part of Starfleet curriculum and become mythological in their own right. Even Harriman demonstrated that Kirk's missions were part of his studies in "grade school" I believe is the phrase used. Plus Janeway's comments to Kim.

Point is, Kirk is a larger than life hero in Starfleet. Lower Decks is having fun with that trope while appreciating that Trek fans are in on the joke. Self-referential comedy is one of my favorites.

 

[Nenya]

That kind of thing started years ago with VOY's smarmy references to Kirk and co.

Kor

That made sense because they were in that time frame, if the episode Flashback is what you're referring to. Lower Decks has references EVERY EPISODE. It's just trying way too hard.

 

[fireproof78]

That made sense because they were in that time frame, if the episode Flashback is what you're referring to. Lower Decks has references EVERY EPISODE. It's just trying way too hard.

Trying way to hard at what?

I get that LD isn't for everyone but with the constant complaining about PIC and DSC being "not Star Trek" we now have a show that is proud of being Star Trek and having fun with it. And that's trying "too hard?"

I'm trying to understand but it's just escaping me.

 

[Vger23]

Trying way to hard at what?

I get that LD isn't for everyone but with the constant complaining about PIC and DSC being "not Star Trek" we now have a show that is proud of being Star Trek and having fun with it. And that's trying "too hard?"

I'm trying to understand but it's just escaping me.

Everything sucks unless it is exactly what I want and expect...and even I am not clear on what I want or expect...but I know it when I don't see it.

It's been that way for 40 years, and people still haven't gotten over it or learned yet. I don't think logical arguments or questions are going to cut the mustard here, but your efforts are always appreciated.

 

[fireproof78]

Everything sucks unless it is exactly what I want and expect...and even I am not clear on what I want or expect...but I know it when I don't see it.

It's been that way for 40 years, and people still haven't gotten over it or learned yet. I don't think logical arguments or questions are going to cut the mustard here, but your efforts are always appreciated.

I mean, call me naïve, but I don't think we should be like Data and stating we hate something and then keep asking for more.

 

[Nenya]

Trying way to hard at what?

I get that LD isn't for everyone but with the constant complaining about PIC and DSC being "not Star Trek" we now have a show that is proud of being Star Trek and having fun with it. And that's trying "too hard?"

I'm trying to understand but it's just escaping me.

It's like they are aware they are in a Star Trek show. It takes out all the seriousness for me. A show can still be funny if it takes itself seriously. Lower Decks to me is like Epic Movie! and that genre of films. Epic Movie! was described as, "irreverent and also appreciative, dragging its satiric prey down to the lowest pop-cultural denominator". TONS of Star Trek pop culture references in Lower Decks. It has also been described as "respecting" Star Trek. I don't know about anyone else but poking fun at something isn't respecting it.

 

[fireproof78]

It's like they are aware they are in a Star Trek show. It takes out all the seriousness for me. A show can still be funny if it takes itself seriously. Lower Decks to me is like Epic Movie! and that genre of films. Epic Movie! was described as, "irreverent and also appreciative, dragging its satiric prey down to the lowest pop-cultural denominator". TONS of Star Trek pop culture references in Lower Decks. It has also been described as "respecting" Star Trek. I don't know about anyone else but poking fun at something isn't respecting it.

I poke fun at myself all the time but still respect me. I guess this is an agree to disagree moment. I don't think it is irreverent or "dragging down Star Trek." I do think it is a bit self-aware but seriousness to work as its own part of the Trek world.

But, taking it seriously is probably the first mistake in appreciate what they are trying to do.

 

[Nenya]

Everything sucks unless it is exactly what I want and expect...and even I am not clear on what I want or expect...but I know it when I don't see it.

It's been that way for 40 years, and people still haven't gotten over it or learned yet. I don't think logical arguments or questions are going to cut the mustard here, but your efforts are always appreciated.

I guess it's easy to discount people's opinions when you talk for them.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess it's easy to discount people's opinions when you talk for them.

It's just confusing as fuck to keep watching/participating with something that doesn't appeal to a person.

Yeah, I have a habit of discounting opinions that make no sense.

 

[NCC-73515]

I mean, call me naïve, but I don't think we should be like Data and stating we hate something and then keep asking for more.

It is revolting!

I don't know about anyone else but poking fun at something isn't respecting it.

Referencing even obscure details and keeping the designs, sounds, cultures consistent is very respectful

 

[Vger23]

I guess it's easy to discount people's opinions when you talk for them.

I’m not discounting anything. But I do think I hit the nail in the head. Lots of people can’t separate their (perfectly reasonable and valid) opinions from "facts," as though they need to somehow validate those opinions.

Star Trek is a broad franchise that defies narrow definition, despite countless people rambling on about stuff like "Roddenberry's vision" and all that garbage. LD, while not my personal cup of tea, is just as valid an entry into the franchise as TNG or anything else. It doesn't need to be "serious" or whatever to be valid or respectful of the franchise. Just because we don't agree with something doesn't automatically make it disrespectful or wrong.

LD is a silly, referential, ironic, and light-hearted lens to view the Star Trek universe through. It's not supposed to be the franchise version of "Clone Wars" or even "Star Trek: The Animated Series" from the 70's. It's its own unique thing. The references are part of its structure. Frankly, I find the references and Easter eggs my primary source of enjoyment with the show. It's not supposed to be "this is what REAL Starfleet officers are like and talk about..." It's just a whacky little animated show that pokes self-aware fun at a 54-year old franchise with love and humor.

And just like all the iterations of Star Trek that came before, it's not going to be everyone's favorite. I'd rather they screw with the formula and look for unique ways to explore the Trek universe (even if that is risky) than be subjected to "TNG Season 26." That's just my opinion, though. And, it's clearly the opinion of CBS and the producers.

But just because we don't like the approach it takes doesn't mean it has no place in the franchise or that it's "doing it wrong/disrespectfully." That's bull.

 

[NCC-73515]

Frankly, I find the references and Easter eggs my primary source of enjoyment with the show.

Same here

 

[The Wormhole]

You can have comedy in Trek and still be taken seriously (The Magnificent Ferengi).

You know, I'm generally more forgiving of the Ferengi comedies than most, and indeed I do like The Magnificent Ferengi, but there's now way that counts as "being taken seriously." I doubt that was even the intent with that particular episode.

 

[Lord Garth]

You know, I'm generally more forgiving of the Ferengi comedies than most, and indeed I do like The Magnificent Ferengi, but there's now way that counts as "being taken seriously." I doubt that was even the intent with that particular episode.

Yeah. Throw "Who Mourns for Morn?" in there too. And even though it's not a Ferengi episode, "One Little Ship".

So either he actually took those episodes seriously (to which I ask, "why?!"), doesn't remember them too well anymore, or there's some revisionist history going on here.

"The Naked Now" (TNG). That's another one that shouldn't be taken seriously.

"Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy" (VOY) is another one that would've completely fallen apart if they'd played it completely straight. The potato aliens were perfect for that episode.

 

[The Wormhole]

"The Naked Now" (TNG). That's another one that shouldn't be taken seriously.

Probably best just to throw TNG's entire first season under that bus.

 

[fireproof78]

either he actually took those episodes seriously (to which I ask, "why?!"), doesn't remember them too well anymore, or there's some revisionist history going on here.

All Star Trek is serious business.