a JEDI question

[RobertScorpio]

We watched all 6, yep all 6 ,STAR WARS movies this weekend. Mainly to get clues as to how to beat the LEGO games...

For the most part, I actually like the STAR WARS saga. The casting decisions were questionable, but once you get past that, its a pretty epic story. Anakin/Darth Vader has to be one of the most dynamic characters ever to be created in a SCIFI storyline, for movies.

Here is my question. The Emperior claims that he has always forseen Luke's eventual involvement. Does this mean that the Emperior knew that Pademe actually gave birth, and that he lied about it to Anakin at the in of SITH?

Also..star wars fans...at the end of the 'remastered' RETURN OF THE JEDI, is that Hayden standing there at the end with OBE WAN and Yoda? Or was it some look alike?

I wish George Lucas would have paid LIAM NEESON whatever he wanted to add him at the end of the JEDI as well. I thoughu Liam was one of the best parts of 1-2-3, and seeing him at the end of JEDI would have been cool.

Rob

 

[DonIago]

1) I'm pretty sure the Emperor lied to Vader. It's...what he does.

2) Depends on the version of Jedi you were watching. Originally - no. In later versions - yes.

Phantom Menace for the most part really doesn't work for me these days, and I still think Anakin's fall was handled pretty badly...but was a stellar (no pun intended) example of someone writing themselves into a corner.

Also, I think Padme set feminism back several decades with the whole "losing the will to live" nonsense right after she's given birth to twins. Not like they might like having a mom around or anything...but hey, she did lose her boyfriend....you know, the psycho one whom she married even after he ranted to her about killing women & children...

 

[RobertScorpio]

1) I'm pretty sure the Emperor lied to Vader. It's...what he does.

2) Depends on the version of Jedi you were watching. Originally - no. In later versions - yes.

Phantom Menace for the most part really doesn't work for me these days, and I still think Anakin's fall was handled pretty badly...but was a stellar (no pun intended) example of someone writing themselves into a corner.

Also, I think Padme set feminism back several decades with the whole "losing the will to live" nonsense right after she's given birth to twins. Not like they might like having a mom around or anything...but hey, she did lose her boyfriend....you know, the psycho one whom she married even after he ranted to her about killing women & children...

Oh, 1-2-3 are not with out their issues, to be sure. But little kids, like my son, are not going to pay any mind to Anakin's obvious fall and the idiocy of those around him, including pademe. But, who knows ,maybe political correctness got out of countrol and they (the Jedi) missed all the warning signs like the US Army did with the whacko who killed the people on that fort last week.

Rob

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

The Emperior claims that he has always forseen Luke's eventual involvement.

Please site the source for this. By that, I mean the Emperor says he foresees everything, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that he actually does. I've seen the saga a few times, but please point me to the specific line to which he made that specific claim.

 

[SeerSGB]

Arrrgh, you just had to mention the abomination that is the DVD version of Return of the Jedi...for that you must pay!

Sorry, I really fraking had that altered force-ghost scene at the end of the DVD version. And it sort puts a kink in Luke's thing about Vader always having good in him. Not to mention being disrespecful, imo, to the original Anakin actor: Sebastian Shaw.

Phantom Menace for the most part really doesn't work for me these days, and I still think Anakin's fall was handled pretty badly...but was a stellar (no pun intended) example of someone writing themselves into a corner.

I really did not give a shit about Anakin in the prequel movies. He's a whiny little bitch boy through the whole thing, and we're suppose to feel sorry for him falling from grace? Hell, by the time Episode III came around I was glad he got his ass fried, if I was Obi Wan I would have kicked him back into lave pool just to be sure the fucker was dead.

And the written in a corner element: could have been worse. At one point-- if the rumors from back in the pre-Episode I days are true-- Lucas was going to have Vader and Anakin be seperate characters that somehow ended merged into one.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The Emperior claims that he has always forseen Luke's eventual involvement.

Please site the source for this. By that, I mean the Emperor says he foresees everything, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that he actually does. I've seen the saga a few times, but please point me to the specific line to which he made that specific claim.

Several times, and no i can't tell you the actual scene, but either he (emperior while talking with Darth) or when Darth is confronting luke during their duel in EMPIRE, there is dialog like..

"Things are transpiring just as I planned" Okay thats iffy...

Or.."You can defeat the Emperior, he has forseen this" Darth to Luke right after Luke hands himself in, but before he faces the emperior.

Rob

 

[Kegg]

And the written in a corner element: could have been worse. At one point-- if the rumors from back in the pre-Episode I days are true-- Lucas was going to have Vader and Anakin be seperate characters that somehow ended merged into one.

It's generally asserted that Lucas didn't know that Darth Vader was Luke's father when he made A New Hope, but he definitely knew from Empire Strikes Back onwards (for obvious reasons). Some fans toyed with the idea that maybe he wasn't, he was a clone or whatever, but I don't recall that being taken as seriously to be considered a rumour.

But then I could be wrong there.

 

[RandyS]

The Emperior claims that he has always forseen Luke's eventual involvement.

Please site the source for this. By that, I mean the Emperor says he foresees everything, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that he actually does. I've seen the saga a few times, but please point me to the specific line to which he made that specific claim.

At two different points in JEDI he says:

"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."

And:

"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design".

It isn't so much that he foresees things, as manipulates everything and everybody.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I think Palpitine lied to Vader in order to put the final nail on the coffin. In order to induce rage and hatred that would give gumbo chance of turning back to the light side. I don't think Palpatine knew that there were twins or any details,but if you notice he only says Padme died and said nothing about the twins. I doubt he knew there were twins. In ESB Palpatine tells Vader that It seems that Luke is the son of Anikan, so I think Palpatine found out before Vader, how long he knew is anyones guess. I agree that Qui-Gon should have been there at the end of Jedi and he should have been there in episode 3. The one thing that has always bothered me about young anikian bieng there other than he's young, I can acept that becouse he goes back to his Jedi form, but why is he wearing the traditional robes and not the ones he always wore?

 

[davejames]

Yeah Hayden's appearance at the end of Jedi is annoying, but it's not NEARLY as grating as that new dance number in Jabba's palace. I just rewatched the movie recently, and I wanted to rip my eyes out after that.

The mood and flow of that entire sequence is just completely ruined now.

 

[Broccoli]

Jar Jar needed to appear as a Force Ghost at the end of Jedi.

There. I said what we were all thinking.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Im glad Luke wasn't a clone of Anakins, or that Darth was a clone of Anakin either. I think its a great scene when Luke takes off Darth's mask. It plays out real well, I think.

Didn't Lucas claim that oldBSG stole of its story ideas? Did he (lucas) have to change his plans due to these 'security' links he refers too?

rob

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

And the written in a corner element: could have been worse. At one point-- if the rumors from back in the pre-Episode I days are true-- Lucas was going to have Vader and Anakin be seperate characters that somehow ended merged into one.

It's generally asserted that Lucas didn't know that Darth Vader was Luke's father when he made A New Hope, but he definitely knew from Empire Strikes Back onwards (for obvious reasons). Some fans toyed with the idea that maybe he wasn't, he was a clone or whatever, but I don't recall that being taken as seriously to be considered a rumour.

But then I could be wrong there.

I might agree with that, but it was clear that there was something significant about Luke's father, as indicated several times in A New Hope. His uncle doesn't want to talk about him, and Ben Kenobi does tell his little story.

I happen to believe inspiration is not linear, so maybe Lucas didn't have it clear in his head, but there was sure enough an intended Luke's father/ Vader connection.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Wel, obviously there was a connection between Vader and Luke's Dad. Vader was supposed to have killed him.

Apparently the original draft of ESB featured Anakin as a force-ghost, so I think it's pretty clear that the idea of Vader being Luke's s Dad wasn't in Lucas' mind all along.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

And the written in a corner element: could have been worse. At one point-- if the rumors from back in the pre-Episode I days are true-- Lucas was going to have Vader and Anakin be seperate characters that somehow ended merged into one.

They weren't the same character initially. The early drafts of Empire have a flashback that makes it clear that Anakin and Vader were different characters entirely. The "Vader betrayed and murdered your father" was intended to be literally true, rather than the retcon as a metaphorical truth.

 

[Kegg]

^ Wel, obviously there was a connection between Vader and Luke's Dad. Vader was supposed to have killed him.

Bingo. It can be assumed the original idea was a straightforward revenge story: Luke has to defeat the man who killed his father.

The other connection is that both Vader and Anakin knew Obi-Wan personally, so he could reminisce about fighting in the Clone Wars with Anakin and rue that Vader was a pupil of his who turned to evil.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Well, Owen was clearly more disturbed about the idea that Luke would want to follow in his dad's footsteps.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

When they were filming the "I am your father" scene they had the Vader actor use another line to keep the revelation a secret even to many people involved in making the movie.

The dummy line goes more or less like this:
Luke: "He (Ben) told me enough. He told me that YOU killed my father!"
Vader:" No! Obi Wan killed your father, Luke!"
Luke "Noooooooooooooo!"

Now that I think about it, both versions are kind of true... from a certain point of view.

 

[David cgc]

I think there was yet another alternate version, either in the script or in JEJ's lines or something that said, "Obi-Wan is your father!" Though that doesn't fit nearly as well with Luke's immediate reaction.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I think there was yet another alternate version, either in the script or in JEJ's lines or something that said, "Obi-Wan is your father!" Though that doesn't fit nearly as well with Luke's immediate reaction.

Maybe Darth Said this...

DARTH: Obe wan never told you about your father.

LUKE: He told me enough; he told me you killed him.

DARTH: No, you had TWO fathers Luke!!!

LUKE: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!