A Hater Revisits nuWho

[Bob The Skutter]

Doctor Who has a definite "treat LGBTs in an egalitarian manner" agenda -- which is good -- and it's fair enough to say that all DW writers are in on sending the message that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Which there isn't.

Frankly I wish more shows would. The world would be a better place if more people realised there's nothing wrong with being different.

Hah, says the guy with the same AV as 6 billion other people!

I do not... it's ever so slightly different.

 

[Sci]

Not funny. But this being RTD, we have to get a gay reference in.

Ditched the thread at this point.

Indeed. That complaint makes about as much sense as watching "Blink" and saying, "This being Steven Moffat, we have to get a straight reference in" when Sally holds Billy's hand at the end.

Yes, they are completely the same thing.

They are. They're both completely gratuitous, unnecessary insertions of the topic of sexuality into a family show. I mean, by God, children are watching this -- I don't want to have to explain to them what Sally and Billy are doing when the camera's off!

Seriously, why do you not object to insertions of heterosexuality into a story but you do get irritated at mentions of homosexuality?

 

[Starkers]

Indeed. That complaint makes about as much sense as watching "Blink" and saying, "This being Steven Moffat, we have to get a straight reference in" when Sally holds Billy's hand at the end.

Yes, they are completely the same thing.

They are. They're both completely gratuitous, unnecessary insertions of the topic of sexuality into a family show. I mean, by God, children are watching this -- I don't want to have to explain to them what Sally and Billy are doing when the camera's off!

Seriously, why do you not object to insertions of heterosexuality into a story but you do get irritated at mentions of homosexuality?

That's obviously because hetrosexuality is natural and has been around for thousands of years...not like that homo-sexuality which was only invented by trendy lefties in 1974

Seriously though it's the fear of the different I guess. Gay people on TV is just the latest version of it. Soon gay characters will be as usual on telly as black characters or, shock, women in positions of authority. Actually in many respects you could argue they already are...almost...

 

[wamdue]

Indeed. That complaint makes about as much sense as watching "Blink" and saying, "This being Steven Moffat, we have to get a straight reference in" when Sally holds Billy's hand at the end.

Well Moffat did say he's written the gayest episode of Doctor Who. So maybe the complaint should be levelled at Moffat too.

Doctor Who has a definite "treat LGBTs in an egalitarian manner" agenda -- which is good -- and it's fair enough to say that all DW writers are in on sending the message that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Which there isn't.

does that mean I have to include it in fanfics?

 

[Kelso]

I initially disliked "Boomtown", but it has really grown on me.

 

[Sci]

Well Moffat did say he's written the gayest episode of Doctor Who. So maybe the complaint should be levelled at Moffat too.

Doctor Who has a definite "treat LGBTs in an egalitarian manner" agenda -- which is good -- and it's fair enough to say that all DW writers are in on sending the message that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Which there isn't.

does that mean I have to include it in fanfics?

Your fanfic can include whatever you want. But let's be frank, it's not like fan fiction on the Internet has ever wanted for LGBT content.

 

[wamdue]

Doctor Who has a definite "treat LGBTs in an egalitarian manner" agenda -- which is good -- and it's fair enough to say that all DW writers are in on sending the message that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Which there isn't.

does that mean I have to include it in fanfics?

Your fanfic can include whatever you want. But let's be frank, it's not like fan fiction on the Internet has ever wanted for LGBT content.

there is plenty of that, not something ive written myself, but i do want my fanfics to be as much like real Doctor Who as possible.

 

[DimesDan]

Boom Town isn't great, but the resturant scene is superb and it was probably the first episode when I started to like Mickey...plus a lot of set up for what's to come as well.

My thoughts exactly. I think this is also where I began to realize I didn't like Rose because of the way she treated Mickey.

Yeah, that's about the only good thing for me, the way that Mickey explains how he's hurt. It was also a bit of a surprise to see that come up in an RTD script, because he's the one who pushes this whole idea of the Doctor and Rose being in love, and that they're both right about everything. It was good to see Mickey react how any of us would. On the other hand, that's only about 20 seconds out of about 45 minutes of otherwise irredeemable rubbish.

Never mind. Thanks for dropping by anyway.

Ditched the thread at this point.

Indeed. That complaint makes about as much sense as watching "Blink" and saying, "This being Steven Moffat, we have to get a straight reference in" when Sally holds Billy's hand at the end.

Yes, they are completely the same thing. What a twit I clearly am.

God you truly are a small and narrow minded fool aren't you. I bet you're the kind of guy who stands in the corner of the SU bar staring at everyone in there having a good time and damning them for it.

You know what, I count myself as straight and I personally think that Captain Jack Harkness is one of the best characters on television in a long time and I also think that this so called gay agenda that Rusty is "pushing" on people is fucking brilliant.

Now go and read the Daily Fail and hang out with other hate filled small minded fools like yourself.

 

[Jax]

God you truly are a small and narrow minded fool aren't you. I bet you're the kind of guy who stands in the corner of the SU bar staring at everyone in there having a good time and damning them for it.

You know what, I count myself as straight and I personally think that Captain Jack Harkness is one of the best characters on television in a long time and I also think that this so called gay agenda that Rusty is "pushing" on people is fucking brilliant.

Now go and read the Daily Fail and hang out with other hate filled small minded fools like yourself.

Some people are born on this planet to do nothing but hate sadly.

Jack is a great character and I say this despite being straight and early on sometimes the gay stuff made me a little uncomfortable but now normally I don't even give it a 2nd thought because I don't think TV should be about man/girl every 2 seconds. Jack has had moments with girls too but people seem to only complain about the male stuff because of there small minds.

 

[Neroon]

Never mind. Thanks for dropping by anyway.
Yes, they are completely the same thing. What a twit I clearly am.

God you truly are a small and narrow minded fool aren't you. I bet you're the kind of guy who stands in the corner of the SU bar staring at everyone in there having a good time and damning them for it.

You know what, I count myself as straight and I personally think that Captain Jack Harkness is one of the best characters on television in a long time and I also think that this so called gay agenda that Rusty is "pushing" on people is fucking brilliant.

Now go and read the Daily Fail and hang out with other hate filled small minded fools like yourself.

Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

Everyone .... in order for the discussion to continue, please keep away from the personal attacks. You can give point and counterpoint so long as it stays on the topic of the thread.

Bones, do yourself a favor and help the thread by not being so snide on such a sensitive and important topic.

 

[The]

And I'll lighten the mood with a song...

 

[Neroon]

Not exactly the lyrics I would have chosen..... but it works.

 

[Bones2]

Bones, do yourself a favor and help the thread by not being so snide on such a sensitive and important topic.

Where was I?

Right, one more time for clarity.

I object to the gratuitous use of any sexual references in a kid's show. Same goes for homosexual references, especially when they're there just for the sake of having something gay in there. It's hardly some blow for equality.

As for the character of Jack, I object to him because he's actually a bit of a vulgar stereotype (that and he's annoying). A true representation of gay people would be to have them just like everyone else, but of a different sexual persuasion. Jack, instead, is predatory and promiscuous, and talks in cheap innuendo and flirt. He's an obnoxious stereotype of a gay man.

All this is just my opinion of course, but I'd rather not be attacked just for having it.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

As for the character of Jack, I object to him because he's actually a bit of a vulgar stereotype (that and he's annoying). A true representation of gay people would be to have them just like everyone else, but of a different sexual persuasion. Jack, instead, is predatory and promiscuous, and talks in cheap innuendo and flirt. He's an obnoxious stereotype of a gay man.

You're making some rather dodgy assumptions here.

Jack Harkness is not supposed to be "a true representation of gay people", or any other kind of representation of gay people, really. He's a character, not a statistic. And yes, he is predatory and promiscuous, talks in cheap innuendo and flirts, not unlike, say, James Bond, whom - I'm sure you would agree - most people would not describe as a stereotypical gay man. He is also lively, enthusiastic, secretive and brave. In other words, like any other fictional character, Jack has flaws, habits and idiosyncrasies which make him unique. I don't see anything in him that I would call "stereotypically gay", except for the fact that he obviously digs guys.

I think he just annoys you for whatever reason, which is perfectly fine. But everything else is just after-the-fact justification.

 

[Jax]

As for the character of Jack, I object to him because he's actually a bit of a vulgar stereotype (that and he's annoying). A true representation of gay people would be to have them just like everyone else, but of a different sexual persuasion. Jack, instead, is predatory and promiscuous, and talks in cheap innuendo and flirt. He's an obnoxious stereotype of a gay man.

You're making some rather dodgy assumptions here.

Jack Harkness is not supposed to be "a true representation of gay people", or any other kind of representation of gay people, really. He's a character, not a statistic. And yes, he is predatory and promiscuous, talks in cheap innuendo and flirts, not unlike, say, James Bond, whom - I'm sure you would agree - most people would not describe as a stereotypical gay man. He is also lively, enthusiastic, secretive and brave. In other words, like any other fictional character, Jack has flaws, habits and idiosyncrasies which make him unique. I don't see anything in him that I would call "stereotypically gay", except for the fact that he obviously digs guys.

I think he just annoys you for whatever reason, which is perfectly fine. But everything else is just after-the-fact justification.

Jack is a shit stereotypical gay character because he shags women too.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Jack is a shit stereotypical gay character because he shags women too.

Heh. You're right. Though to be fair, it's been a while since we've seen Jack with a woman.

 

[wamdue]

Jack is a shit stereotypical gay character because he shags women too.

Heh. You're right. Though to be fair, it's been a while since we've seen Jack with a woman.

excuse Jack for not cheating on Ianto, besides we dont know that Jack hasnt had a few meaningless shags since Children of Earth, im sure some of those were women.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Or poodles.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I wonder, though, if you're that critical, how did you ever get into Who in the first place? The old series has its share of nonsensical plots, unrestrained camp and acting failures.

Well, I was much younger when I used to watch the classic series. But I still found it captivating. I'd probably be harsher on it if I watched it now. But when the new series came along, there was a certain amount of excitement there that it was back, and then it seemed to start with a run of poor episodes, Unquiet Dead aside. I do find things to like in a lot of new Who, that's why I've started this topic. Maybe I've been too harsh on it.

I was a full-blown Whovian back in 1983, when I was 13, but I quickly realized that the show was mostly poorly written, poorly paced nonsense anchored by captivating actors (Davison, Pertwee and Tom Baker in the year I was watching them on PBS) and a zany eccentricity that passed for sophistication. (I was actually fond of the bad special effects in that they made me feel smarter for seeing the shows intellectual superiority to flasher entertainments like Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers. In retrospect, those shows were only marginally dumber. And they moved at a better clip.)

This new show is better paced and (usually) better written, sometimes exceptionally so.

 

[Sci]

I wonder, though, if you're that critical, how did you ever get into Who in the first place? The old series has its share of nonsensical plots, unrestrained camp and acting failures.

Well, I was much younger when I used to watch the classic series. But I still found it captivating. I'd probably be harsher on it if I watched it now. But when the new series came along, there was a certain amount of excitement there that it was back, and then it seemed to start with a run of poor episodes, Unquiet Dead aside. I do find things to like in a lot of new Who, that's why I've started this topic. Maybe I've been too harsh on it.

I was a full-blown Whovian back in 1983, when I was 13, but I quickly realized that the show was mostly poorly written, poorly paced nonsense anchored by captivating actors (Davison, Pertwee and Tom Baker in the year I was watching them on PBS) and a zany eccentricity that passed for sophistication. (I was actually fond of the bad special effects in that they made me feel smarter for seeing the shows intellectual superiority to flasher entertainments like Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers. In retrospect, those shows were only marginally dumber. And they moved at a better clip.)

This new show is better paced and (usually) better written, sometimes exceptionally so.

Exactly.