A few things to discuss about Kes

[Oddish]

A quick look on memory Alpha shows that The Doctor was sent to earth to save himself or the real Zimmerman or whatever.

Which confirms what I've written before of ruining a good concept. Voyager was supposed to be lost in the Delta Quadrant but it didn't take more than three years before they got intouch with Earth from an impossible distance and from then we had holograms and TNG characters jumping around on or off the ship just like as if Earth was just some kilometers away. talk about ruining a good premise for the show!

I think it worked all right, though it seemed pretty questionable that the crew lost their mail privileges for three months and their doctor for at least one. Janeway probably should have vetoed the trip for the crew's sake.

But I only quoted it because it was the episode that directly followed THAT one.

Which was sad. Tom tried to do the good thing and shouldn't have been treated that way.

I agree. It was very cathartic, rewriting that episode. And as much as I like Janeway, leaving her frustrated and pissed off at the end was icing on the cake.

"Prodigy" would probably be the best show to bring back Kes in some decent way.

That would have been a good compromise... not sure what state Jennifer Lien is currently in, though. And Trek, to its credit, generally doesn't re-cast characters.

Unfortunately, the Trek books are heading in a totally different direction with destruction of our old favorites from TNG, DS9 and VOY so bringing her back in one of tose books would probably lead to further destruction of the character.

It would be hard writing a story that meshed with the already contradicting endings we got in "The Gift" and "Fury". Though given the outstanding work the writers of PRO did, they might have been able to manage it.

 

[Lynx]

I think it worked all right, though it seemed pretty questionable that the crew lost their mail privileges for three months and their doctor for at least one. Janeway probably should have vetoed the trip for the crew's sake.


But I only quoted it because it was the episode that directly followed THAT one.

If it hadn't been for that episode, I probably would have watched it.

But as it was, I actually gave up.

I actually stopped watching VOY after The Gift and didn't watch it for two years. However, I decided to give the series another chance and started watching it again by renting VHS tapes with the episodes from a shop in my hometown (which was legal actually) until I caught up with the TV airings of season six. And as a reward for that, was that I got that episode.

Then I just had enough.

However, I actually watched Endgame just to see how the old favorites would come home which was anothe mistake.

I agree. It was very cathartic, rewriting that episode. And as much as I like Janeway, leaving her frustrated and pissed off at the end was icing on the cake.

I'm not sure if this is about the original episode or your rewritten one.

That would have been a good compromise... not sure what state Jennifer Lien is currently in, though. And Trek, to its credit, generally doesn't re-cast characters.

Fortunately they don't and I have to give them credit for that.

I've watched some series where some actor has quit and been replaced by some other actor in that role and that hasn't worked for me. Instead it has made me quit watching the series in some cases.


But since PRO is a cartoon, maybe it could work with someone with a voice much like Jennifer Lien's.

It would be hard writing a story that meshed with the already contradicting endings we got in "The Gift" and "Fury". Though given the outstanding work the writers of PRO did, they might have been able to manage it.

I can give them my solutions for those endings for free if necessary!
All for the sake of art and for saving a character.

 

[Oddish]

I'm not sure if this is about the original episode or your rewritten one.

My rewritten one. In the actual "Thirty Days", she was certainly pissed, but not frustrated.

I can give them my solutions for those endings for free if necessary!

I think you already have. And even though "Q ex machina" should be used sparingly, it might be worthwhile in this case.

But since PRO is a cartoon, maybe it could work with someone with a voice much like Jennifer Lien's.

Maybe. But remember, they chased down Shannon Fill to play Sito, when she hadn't acted professionally for 25 years. That suggests considerable commitment to their rule.

I actually stopped watching VOY after The Gift and didn't watch it for two years. However, I decided to give the series another chance and started watching it again by renting VHS tapes with the episodes from a shop in my hometown (which was legal actually) until I caught up with the TV airings of season six. And as a reward for that, was that I got that episode.

Then I just had enough.

Ouch. Sounds like a perfect storm of disappointment and frustration.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

That would have been a good compromise... not sure what state Jennifer Lien is currently in, though. And Trek, to its credit, generally doesn't re-cast characters.

"Star Trek" recasts characters all the time. Ziyal had three different actresses on DS9. Naomi Wildman, Captain Braxton, and the Borg Queen all changed actors during "Voyager’s" run. Icheb got a new actor on "Picard." And everyone on TOS (edit: not TNG my bad) has been recast twice now (for the Abrams films and for SNW.) With Kes now being elderly and/or an energy being, a change in actresses might hardly be noticed. Especially on an animated show.

It would be hard writing a story that meshed with the already contradicting endings we got in "The Gift" and "Fury". Though given the outstanding work the writers of PRO did, they might have been able to manage it.

I never found "Fury" to contradict "the Gift." Kes evolved, and at first was excited about it; then two years later, she returned with new powers, but had gone insane. My main complaint was always that we weren't shown or told what happened in between. (I know the books tried to explain this, but I don't care for that explanation.) They should've tied Suspiria into it.

 

[Lynx]

My rewritten one. In the actual "Thirty Days", she was certainly pissed, but not frustrated.

I never understood Janeway's actions in the original episode. That was when I started to realize that they had been messing up the character badly.

I liked Janeway in seasons 1,2 and 3 but I didn't like her in the later seasons.

And neither of the versions, the original and your rewritten version has the Johnny Winter song in it.

I think you already have. And even though "Q ex machina" should be used sparingly, it might be worthwhile in this case.

Q is someone I use sparingly. It's too easy just to have him snap his fingers and fix things. I didn't use him in the Gowron case and won't use him when it comes to Garak and Carey.

But I actually like the character and in "the Kes case", I found it appropriate to use him, mainly because the "transformation" of Kes in The Gift and that insulting episode in season 6 were so stupid and exaggerated from the start so I just thought that i needed something exaggerated to fix the damage made to the character in those episodes.

Maybe. But remember, they chased down Shannon Fill to play Sito, when she hadn't acted professionally for 25 years. That suggests considerable commitment to their rule.

In that case I actually support their actions. If there is something I really dislike is when they re-cast a character.

Ouch. Sounds like a perfect storm of disappointment and frustration.

It was!

"Star Trek" recasts characters all the time. Ziyal had three different actresses on DS9. Naomi Wildman, Captain Braxton, and the Borg Queen all changed actors during "Voyager’s" run. Icheb got a new actor on "Picard." And everyone on TNG has been recast twice now (for the Abrams films and for SNW.) With Kes now being elderly and/or an energy being, a change in actresses might hardly be noticed. Especially on an animated show.

That is actually true. But it's all about recurring characters and I think that in all those cases it have been something of "the last way out" for those in charge.

I can actually add Worf's son Alexander and Quark's mother Ishka to your list.

As for the Abrams movies and SNW, I guess that you mean TOS characters, not TNG characters.

As for an animated series, I do tink that it could work with someone with a voice similar to Lien's voice. But I really hope that I'll never see the day when they bring in some 2020's Melissa Tyrelips to play Kes.

I actually hate recasts. It's never the same as the original. It can work for a recurring character but not for a regular one. Such recasts have actually made me quit watching certain series.

A long time ago on another forum I was asked if I couldn't come up with at least someone who could replace Lien if necessary and after a lot of thinking, I came up with Kirsten Dunst, Laura Harris and Renee O'Connor. They were the only actresses I could find who had at least some resemblance to Kes

But Harris and O'Connor aren't acting now what I know and Dunst is hardly seen in any new productions either.

When it comes to Kes, I would rather se her re-appear in a good written book but with the current trend in the Trek books of destroying characters, I don't think that would be a good idea. They would probably destroy the character even more or kill her off.

I never found "Fury" to contradict "the Gift." Kes evolved, and at first was excited about it; then two years later, she returned with new powers, but had gone insane. My main complaint was always that we weren't shown or told what happened in between. (I know the books tried to explain this, but I don't care for that explanation.) They should've tied Suspiria into it.

I found The Gift a bad episode with that "energy-being" mumbo jumbo. It was just a quick fix to get rid of the character as soonas possible. The story was so bad that I can actually think that the writer wrote it during a 20 minutes coffee break or at the toilet.

If they really had to kick out the character, they could have let her leave with that Zahir in Darkling. In that case, it would have been possible to bring her back as a normal character in the future.

As for that episode in season six, I've stated so many times what I think about it that i don't find it necessary now.

As for restoring the character, it took me 10 minutes to fix the damage made to the character in The Gift and two minutes to fix the damage made to the character in that insulting episode in season 6.

 

[Oddish]

But I actually like the character and in "the Kes case", I found it appropriate to use him, mainly because the "transformation" of Kes in The Gift and that insulting episode in season 6 were so stupid and exaggerated from the start so I just thought that i needed something exaggerated to fix the damage made to the character in those episodes.

Q might have taken an interest in Kes anyway, post-"The Gift". A new being of great potential, emerging. For Q, it would be like seeing a child born.

And neither of the versions, the original and your rewritten version has the Johnny Winter song in it.

Uhhh... sorry. No Iron Maiden either. I guess I'm just a cultural philistine.

That is actually true. But it's all about recurring characters and I think that in all those cases it have been something of "the last way out" for those in charge.

Well, sometimes it's necessary. Such as in SNW, which was made 55 years after TOS but set five years earlier. Trying to compu-burn six decades off William Shatner would be a daunting proposition.

I can actually add Worf's son Alexander and Quark's mother Ishka to your list.

I think the original Ishka died. Hazards of having older characters.

As for the Abrams movies and SNW, I guess that you mean TOS characters, not TNG characters.

See what I said about de-aging Shatner.

But Harris and O'Connor aren't acting now what I know and Dunst is hardly seen in any new productions either.

I'm sure a suitable actress could be found for a VOY reboot, assuming they didn't revamp the whole cast. Considering how poorly they used the original character concepts (Chakotay's heritage, B'Elanna's anger, Harry's inexperience, Neelix's hardscrabble past, and the Maquis's renegade nature), they probably would.

When it comes to Kes, I would rather se her re-appear in a good written book but with the current trend in the Trek books of destroying characters, I don't think that would be a good idea. They would probably destroy the character even more or kill her off.

That's why I like fanfiction. If you want something done right...

As for that episode in season six, I've stated so many times what I think about it that i don't find it necessary now.

It never was. I know you disagree, but I liked "The Gift". It was a perfectly acceptable coda for Kes. If they wanted to bring back Kes, they should have done it in "Shattered".

As for restoring the character, it took me 10 minutes to fix the damage made to the character in The Gift and two minutes to fix the damage made to the character in that insulting episode in season 6.

Like me and "Nightingale". Rewriting the episode so that it didn't assassinate Janeway and addressed the viewers' concerns instead of slapping them across the face was incredibly easy.