A Federation Election?

[Eternality]

Reading in the planetary defenses thread got me thinking... Federation Presidential electoral logistics must be staggering (assuming the officeholder is popularly elected as the novels suggest).

So you have around 150 member states spread across thousands of lightyears, some with jurisdiction over several worlds. And then we have perhaps tens of thousands of starships, civilian ships, Starfleet installations, research outposts, comm relays and other deep space platforms.

How prevalent do you think voter fraud might be, especially out in the hinterlands of the Federation? People moving around, registering in multiple places, just keeping track of registered voters would be an enormous task in itself leading up to any election.

And what about elections for representation to the legislature? I assume that those away from their homes would participate in absentee voting on an interstellar scale for their representative, but how much do you think that a legislator would pander to the 'alien' vote at home, especially for those planets that might have a particularly diverse population from other member states?

And finally, who represents those who have spent their entire life space-borne in the legislature? These citizens might have no affiliation, nor any desire to associate, with existing constituencies... Would spacers get their own representatives in the Council?

 

[Sci]

Eternality said:
Reading in the planetary defenses thread got me thinking... Federation Presidential electoral logistics must be staggering (assuming the officeholder is popularly elected as the novels suggest).

Fascinating topic. Let's explore.

So you have around 150 member states spread across thousands of lightyears, some with jurisdiction over several worlds. And then we have perhaps tens of thousands of starships, civilian ships, Starfleet installations, research outposts, comm relays and other deep space platforms.

How prevalent do you think voter fraud might be, especially out in the hinterlands of the Federation? People moving around, registering in multiple places, just keeping track of registered voters would be an enormous task in itself leading up to any election.

Well, one of the fundamental conceits of Star Trek, of course, is that, in theory, criminal behavior has been significantly decreased. I imagine that the mechanics of fighting voter fraud would be a problem, true -- but, keep in mind a few things.

1) The Federation's population is probably so large as to make attempts by any one individual to vote multiple times somewhat irrelevant unless he/she votes so often that his/her multiple votes become impossible not to notice. Let's say that the Federation has a population of 1 billion people for every Member State -- that's 150,000,000,000 people, and that's assuming that every Member State has a population that's around 1/6th of our current global population!

2) Federation computers are supposed to be incredibly advanced -- remember, their computers measure data in quads, and we don't actually know how large a quad is.

Really, the major problem with Federation voting probably wouldn't been the need to guard against individuals registering and voting multiple times. The real problem would be ensuring the secure and accurate functioning of the programs that record and count votes from fraud from people seeking to influence the election, such as, say, an unscrupulous voting machine company with ties to major candidates and political parties.

You know, sort of like how it is today.

And what about elections for representation to the legislature? I assume that those away from their homes would participate in absentee voting on an interstellar scale for their representative, but how much do you think that a legislator would pander to the 'alien' vote at home, especially for those planets that might have a particularly diverse population from other member states?

In a United Federation, I don't see why the species of the voter would matter to the Federation Councillor seeking election. If a Betazoid moves to Andor, becomes an Andorian citizen, and wants to represent the Andor to the Federation, why not? If a Tellar has a large population of Efrosians who immigrated there 129 years ago, why wouldn't that Tellarite candidate still want the Efrosian-Tellarites' votes? And since Earth is the capital planet of the UFP, I don't see how the candidate seeking to represent United Earth on the Federation Council could possibly NOT do what she could to appeal to United Earthers of any species. Political citizenship, not species, would be the determining factor.

And finally, who represents those who have spent their entire life space-borne in the legislature? These citizens might have no affiliation, nor any desire to associate, with existing constituencies... Would spacers get their own representatives in the Council?

I would imagine that the best answer to this quest would be to look at how men and women who spent most of their lives at sea or abroad in the past were represented in Congress. But I'm too lazy to do real research.

Barring that, I would imagine that those people would be considered citizens of whatever Federation Member State his/her ship has listed as its home port. If we're talking people born on Starfleet ships, I imagine that the child would be considered a citizen of whatever Federation Member State his parents came from, or, if they came from both, would have the option of claiming citizenship from either FMS upon reaching legal voting age if he is still living aboard a starship/starbase. As for adults who've chosen to live on ships/bases, I imagine that they're considered citizens of whatever Member State they were living in before leaving for space. And I would guess that people who live aboard permanent space stations would be citizens of the Member State in whose space that station falls.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It wasn't a problem until they let Iotians in. To this day President Jojo Krako has his supporters in spite of being the shortest and most corrupt administration in UFP history.

 

[misskim86]

I'm 100% sure the federation would have technology that would eliminate voter fraud

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Agreed. Computer technology is also sufficiently advanced that it would be relatively easy for every citizen of the Federation to directly vote for the President. (AFAIK, in Articles of the Federation, that is exactly how the election works: direct popular vote.)

 

[Sci]

Babaganoosh said:
^ Agreed. Computer technology is also sufficiently advanced that it would be relatively easy for every citizen of the Federation to directly vote for the President. (AFAIK, in Articles of the Federation, that is exactly how the election works: direct popular vote.)

A Time For War, A Time For Peace, actually -- the election has already occurred by Articles of the Federation. But, yeah, given the Federation's computer systems, voter fraud shouldn't be a problem, nor should accurate counts for the popular vote.

The better question is, what steps are taken to protect the computers calculating the votes from people seeking to hack into them to commit election fraud? What's to stop the Diebolds of the 24th Century from trying to steal the election for Min Zife?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Have we ever seen any kind of hacking done in the Trek future, though? Maybe it's just not possible anymore. With sufficiently advanced safeguards, it might not be worth it to try.

 

[Sci]

Babaganoosh said:
Have we ever seen any kind of hacking done in the Trek future, though? Maybe it's just not possible anymore. With sufficiently advanced safeguards, it might not be worth it to try.

We've seen hacking done on numerous occasions, perhaps most notably in the DS9 episode "Honor Among Thieves" where the Orion Syndicate hacked into the mainframe of the Bank of Bolias and stole a great deal of money. We've also seen the Borg hack into starship computers on numerous occasions (though it's not usually called "hacking").

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Still, though, it's probably not worth it for most people to hack in just to alter election results. Most people even in Trek's future would not have the resources of either the Borg or the Orion Syndicate.

 

[Eternality]

But what about say, the Romulan Star Empire? We've seen that they can slip spies into the Federation (and into some high level positions as evidenced in Data's Day and the Vulcan ambassador) quite easily? One might assume though that the electoral system must have some of the highest security available to prevent such tampering.

What I might worry about is the lag time between vote reporting across the Federation...

 

[misskim86]

They have communication faster than light, there's no lagg

 

[Sci]

Eternality said:
But what about say, the Romulan Star Empire? We've seen that they can slip spies into the Federation (and into some high level positions as evidenced in Data's Day and the Vulcan ambassador) quite easily? One might assume though that the electoral system must have some of the highest security available to prevent such tampering.

Possibly. On the other hand, what makes you think the Romulans are going to favor one candidate over the other? To them, it might be a purely academic question whether they get Candidate A or Candidate B.

I'd be more worried about someone loyal to a given candidate from WITHIN trying to fuck with the electoral computers than someone from WITHOUT.

What I might worry about is the lag time between vote reporting across the Federation...

That's only an issue if you presume that they try to get all the votes counted within one day. Maybe the Federation does the sane thing and actually WAITS a while to finish counting to make sure it's all correct. You know, like what our media goes nuts over if we try to do.

 

[Eternality]

I'm sure the Federation media tries to 'call' elections as much as our media does

 

[Sci]

Eternality said:
I'm sure the Federation media tries to 'call' elections as much as our media does

God I hope not.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

misskim86 said:
They have communication faster than light, there's no lagg

Correction, in the DS9 episode 'Family Business' where Sisko first meets Cassidy yates she clearly states her brother, who's on a planet on the otherside of Federation space (that bit stated by sisko himself) has sent a message to her and due to the distance between that planet and DS9 its taken 4 weeks to reach her, if thats not lag I dont know what is.

 

[misskim86]

Well they must have old equipment or something then, because Sisko talks to his Dad on Earth with no lagg

 

[All Seeing Eye]

misskim86 said:
Well they must have old equipment or something then, because Sisko talks to his Dad on Earth with no lagg

Earth is not very far from Bajor, Earth is relatively close to Bajor but Federation space is over 7,000 lightyears across, so depending where you are in Federation space depends on the amount of lag. Earth to Bajor probably has just 1 second of lag maybe 3 seconds whereas to converse over the entire stretch of Federation space (7,000 - 8,000 lightyears) takes 4 weeks maybe even more. Also subspace relays likely have a maximum capacity, so as messages come to a relay it may get overburdened which adds to the lag.

 

[Timo]

Also, there is no particular reason to think that messages travel at a constant speed everywhere in the Federation.

Today, we're used to thinking that "electronic" types of messaging are all instantaneous, or nearly so, which also means they are all equally fast in our experience. Not so with mail, the speed of which (across long distances) depends on the speed of transportation carrying it.

And the speed of subspace signals could depend on power levels, with military channels between Earth and an important outpost much more powerful and thus faster than civilian ones between said outpost and an obscure frontier colony.

I do think there would be at least a few priority channels to basically all the voting worlds of the UFP, though. Using one of those sending over the data packet that contains the votes would result in near-instantaneous voting, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I have the feeling that the President isn't directly elected by the populace. Perhaps each member 'planet/civilization' elects their representatives to the Federation Legislature, and those members of the Federation Legislature are the ones who elect the President.

Or maybe it is done iwth an 'Electoral Colleg'. Technically in the U.S., the people don't vote directly for a president -- We basically vote for representatives to the electoral college who then are reposnsible for casting their vote for president. There is no constitutional law that forces the electoral college member to vote the way the people told him. Therefore, the U.S. President is not directly voted for by the people -- the electoral college decides who to vote for (although the electors almost always voted for whom they have pledged to elect.)

 

[3D Master]

Eternality said:
So you have around 150 member states spread across thousands of lightyears, some with jurisdiction over several worlds.

Actually, that would be a 150 member species; you jurisdiction isn't really accurate. Colonies, once they are self-sufficient become sovereign, and are thus they're own member. The total amount of planets that are part of the Federation would be a 1,000 at least, and probably closer to even 5,000 or even 10,000, and that's not counting the small not-sovereign colonies strewn about who are under the nearest main sovereign world.