A celebration for the Jodie Whittaker era

[matthunter]

Yep, horses for courses. I found Jo Martin's Doctor just the worst combination of Tennant/Smith bombast and little else - her Ruth persona was far better - but she seems to be universally loved. Jodie shows the love the character has for all life - the first hint we got that Ruth was "special" was her murdering half a dozen Judoon with her bare hands. Even fob-watched I can't accept the Doctor would default to that.

But then this is pre Barbara and persuading "One" not to brain the caveman.

 

[The Wormhole]

While the story quality of the Whittaker era is questionable, particularly the second season, Whittaker herself makes an excellent Doctor and at least in the first two seasons she has an equally enjoyable team of companions who are a delight to watch even if Yaz could use more character development Noteworthy episodes of the era so far include Demons of the Punjab, Kerblam, Resolution, Spyfall, Fugitive of the Judoon, Revolution of the Daleks.

Even though no iteration of the Doctor post-Eight has talked about being half-Human, that detail still exists as established lore and will still exist as established lore even if it's never mentioned again.

RTD wrote a line for TEOT which would have retconned that as the Doctor having the flu at the time, but decided to remove it before filming feeling the line was too indulgent and worried that new era fans not familiar with the 96 movie would be confused thinking it to be a reference to Human Nature.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I *adored* him! And (for once) I was completely surprised when he revealed himself.

Mrs Relayer loved him too.

Good to know I'm not the only one!

I also liked the absence of regular enemies like the Daleks and the Cybermen, etc.

So did I. It felt refreshing and I always welcome the opportunity for new creations brought into the mythos. I look forward to seeing Tim Shaw (aside from the teeth...) and the Solitract again in the future, whether it's next series or some time further on.

Frankly, I was a bit astounded at the criticism of series 11, that it didn’t feature any returning villains, after years of complaining of Dalek overuse.

I'm not surprised. You can't please everyone and some people just enjoy complaining. Some people forget that Chibnall expressly said he wanted to start off with a clean slate with no returning monsters and then bring some of them back later on (although you might be right that Chibnall may have overcompensated a bit).

...the Master in particular didn’t really land for me. I think that’s entirely due to me not being over Missy yet. She may be my favorite part of the entire Moffat era and her (and the Simm Master’s death) death and Twelve subsequently never knowing that she did came back to the light side at the end is just beautiful. And I kinda hated that all that got followed up with “eh, the Master’s back as generic evil Time Lord”.

Yeah, that's my one criticism about Dhawan's Master, how neither of them acknowledged that change (not that it was Dhawan's fault). I didn't want a big deal out of it, but at least a small exchange about how he changed again for whatever reason. Maybe it'll be picked up later on, but I do find it weird that The Thirteenth Doctor didn't at least mention Missy when he revealed himself to her.

I think the Cybermen worked well enough, as did the Judoon. Oh, one note. The Doctor Who YouTube channel has to be the worst thing that happened to me, in regards to this series. Some days after “Spyfall” aired (but before I could watch it) they put out two videos called “O – The Reveal” and “History of the Master”. Thanks for spoiling that for me YouTube channel. Same with Captain Jack later on, but at least Jack wasn’t teased throughout the episode.

Yeah, their social media has gotten pretty bad in regards to spoilers. I noticed that in particular after "Fugitive of the Judoon" regarding Jack's return. They were blasting that news mere hours later on Facebook (probably Twitter, too). That's why I make a habit of just avoiding social media if I know I'm not able to watch a big show's newest episode right away. Yeah, we shouldn't have to do that but that's unfortunately the age we live in now.

Maybe it’s because of fan backlash, or because it just was never planned any other way, but I thought “Revolution of the Daleks” sort of shrugging off the Doctor’s origin as the Timeless Child was a disappointing way to follow that up. I mean, the retcon in and of itself doesn’t mean anything if you don’t do interesting character stuff with it, and Thirteen saying “Yeah, I’m still me”, while in and of itself a perfectly fine statement is just boring from a story perspective. But who knows, maybe next series will do something with it.

I took the lack of acknowledgement more of "This is a breather episode for the holidays!" than a reaction to any kind of backlash. I don't think any of the actual Christmas episode of Davies and Moffat eras were tied in directly with any of the story arcs, aside from "The End of Time" and "The Night of the Doctor," which were both regeneration episodes. I fully expect the next series will address the Timeless Child in one form or another.

Also the Corsair appearance was a highlight.

Oh, that's cool! I'll have to track that down. The Corsair (one of her female incarnations) also appeared in Neil Gaiman's entry of the Adventures in Lockdown anthology in the story "One Virtue, and a Thousand Crimes." It's a great little read. I highly recommend it!

Yep, horses for courses. I found Jo Martin's Doctor just the worst combination of Tennant/Smith bombast and little else - her Ruth persona was far better - but she seems to be universally loved. Jodie shows the love the character has for all life - the first hint we got that Ruth was "special" was her murdering half a dozen Judoon with her bare hands. Even fob-watched I can't accept the Doctor would default to that.

But then this is pre Barbara and persuading "One" not to brain the caveman.

Yeah, I'll admit I was bothered by the violence she displayed without knowing who exactly she was and where she fit in The Doctor's history. However, knowing she happened hundreds or even thousands of years before Hartnell's Doctor, it does seem more...acceptable, especially considering your point about Barbara.

RTD wrote a line for TEOT which would have retconned that as the Doctor having the flu at the time, but decided to remove it before filming feeling the line was too indulgent and worried that new era fans not familiar with the 96 movie would be confused thinking it to be a reference to Human Nature.

Huh, I didn't know about that! As much as I don't like the "half-human" business, I kind of wish he kept it in there.

 

[The Wormhole]

Huh, I didn't know about that! As much as I don't like the "half-human" business, I kind of wish he kept it in there.

It's included in The Writer's Tale, it would have been in Part 2 just after the Cactus People beam up to their spaceship with the Doctor and Wilf. Conversation goes somewhat like this:
Cactus Lady: Let's review. Mr. Saxon isn't human?
Doctor: No
Cactus Lady: Right. You're not human either?
Doctor: No. Well, I was, briefly. New Year's Eve, 1999. But I got over it, like the flu.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's included in The Writer's Tale, it would have been in Part 2 just after the Cactus People beam up to their spaceship with the Doctor and Wilf. Conversation goes somewhat like this:
Cactus Lady: Let's review. Mr. Saxon isn't human?
Doctor: No
Cactus Lady: Right. You're not human either?
Doctor: No. Well, I was, briefly. New Year's Eve, 1999. But I got over it, like the flu.

That's an acknowledgement, not a retcon, and actually helps back up my point of view.... which, incidentally, is a variation on the content policy that governs the TARDIS Wiki fan site.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

It's included in The Writer's Tale, it would have been in Part 2 just after the Cactus People beam up to their spaceship with the Doctor and Wilf. Conversation goes somewhat like this:
Cactus Lady: Let's review. Mr. Saxon isn't human?
Doctor: No
Cactus Lady: Right. You're not human either?
Doctor: No. Well, I was, briefly. New Year's Eve, 1999. But I got over it, like the flu.

Damn, now I really wish that was kept. I can absolutely hear Tennant saying that line.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This party sucks.

 

[The Wormhole]

That's an acknowledgement, not a retcon,

RTD himself calls it a retcon in The Writer's Tale.

 

[Tuskin38]

RTD himself calls it a retcon in The Writer's Tale.

Don't bother.

 

[matthunter]

I agree that arguing with DigificWriter is somewhat akin to smashing your own testes between two blocks of uranium that will achieve critical mass on being brought into close proximity. Not because he's right, but because it dooms everyone in a few miles to a slow, painful death AND you hit yourself in the balls.

But RTD did overuse the word retcon, often incorrectly, and loved it so much he put it into Torchwood as their amnesia drug.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Not that any of that matters (even if I agree), since we're here to talk about the Jodie Whittaker era, not RTD's use of "retcon" or a half-human Doctor...

 

[Starkers]

Okay, back on track. My positives:

Reveals: Did not see the Master's return coming, and did not see the Ruth Doctor coming either. I think they kept the lid on those very well. (Jack's return slightly less so)

Jodie: She'll never rank high on my list of Doctors, but she's shown glimmers of being a great Doctor, and I loved some of the stuff she did during lockdown, I imagine that meant a lot to kids who watch the show and to plenty of kids growing up Jodie will always be their Doctor.

Jo Martin: Just wonderful, a complete left field surprise and I wish she'd been Thirteen instead of, well whatever number she is. Yeah she shot some Judoon, but I remember Six using cyanide to kill Shockeye, Ten dropping a Sykorax to his death and imprisoning people in mirrors and scarecrows for eternity! And Eleven nuked Dave Bradley and we never did get to the bottom of whether robot bloke fell or was pushed in Deep Breath did we?

The Master: We didn't need the Master returning so soon, and it's a shame there's no reference to Missy's rehabilitation, but if he was to come back then Dhawan was a great choice. Yes he's a little too manic/Joker like at times but hopefully he'll retain the part into the next showrunner and maybe tone it down, just a smidgen. Great Actor and probably would have made a great Doctor so I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

Ryan and Graham: Loved their chemistry, and loved the whole granddad sub plot, even if the meaty stuff they got to work with came at the expense of Yaz

Yaz : Sort of. Watching the first episode she was the companion I thought had the most potential, so it was a shame she got the Nyssa treatment, hopefully she gets something to get her teeth into in the next series. In fact I liked all three companions individually or in pairs, it was just the whole Fam thing when together that annoyed. Too many companions for the modern show (and frankly much as I love Five/Tegan/Nyssa/Adric it was too much for the classic era as well, even going back to Hartnell too often one of the companions lost out, usually Susan)

Top episodes:

1. The Haunting of Villa Diodati. Scary, funny, a great villain, a guest cast who don't overwhelm the regulars and some good stuff for Jodie. The show needs more of this and I hope we haven't seen the last of Maxine Alderton writing Who.
2. Fugitive of the Judoon. So much going on in this episode and all of it's great.
3. It Takes you Away. I think you either love or hate this episode and I loved it.
4. Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror. Top draw by the numbers Who, and I mean that in the best possible way. You could drop any Doctor into this and it'd be great.
5. Kerblam! I get why people don't like this, but still one of the few episodes of the Chibnall era that gets Who, IMO obviously.
6. Skyfall 1 & 2. Setting aside the Doctor using race to attack her nemesis (and ignoring the fact the Nazi's had an Indian Legion) this is a fun romp, and sad to say Jodie works better with Ada Lovelace and Noor Inayat Khan than she ever did with the Fam
7. Demons of the Punjab. In terms of an episode of TV drama in many ways this should be higher up the list, Vinay Patel's script is amazing. It's just a terrible episode of Dr Who and the one that cements the passive nature of Thirteen.
8. Rosa. Yes it's a little clunky, and yes the bad guy is terrible (and not in a good way) but this was still an important episode, no metaphors or analogies, this tackles racism head on and is to be commended for doing so.
9. The Woman who Fell to Earth. Not in the same league as The Eleventh Hour or Rose as an intro but still a solid debut for Jodie and co.
10. Resolution/Revolution. Wanted to put one of these in the list but couldn't choose between them so put them both in! Solid, diverting Dalek stories.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Starkers, as much as we disagree on this era in general and the use of The Thirteenth Doctor, it is curious how we both largely agree on the best episodes of the two series, the biggest outliers being I'm a big fan of "The Tsuranga Conundrum" and you rate "Kerblam!" and "Rosa" much higher than I do. Which makes me think that the parts that worked well, worked very well, and those that didn't work quite as well, stand out more as falling short. As much as I'll defend Chibnall to a degree (I will concede he's not at the same caliber as Davies and Moffatt), it is curious how the top episodes weren't written by him at all (aside from a co-writing credit for "Fugitive of the Judoon," undoubtedly for the arc-related material). He has solid entries but nothing that's hit out of the park, although "The Tsuranga Conundrum" comes close for me (but, again, I know I'm in the minority on that count). "Spyfall" is almost there, too, but it has some issues, particularly in the second part as you detailed.

One thing I want to touch on again because it's not being talked about enough (in fact, I don't think anyone else has mentioned it): Segun Akinola's score for the two series have been absolutely incredible. I've been listening to all of it almost nonstop since I began writing my initial post for this thread on Friday and I keep finding more and more layers to it. The otherworldliness of the music stands out for many of the episodes, even the Earth-based stories. I also find it so refreshing from the overly bombastic themes that much of Murray Gold's tenure thrived on, even if Akinola's work doesn't quite reach the levels of Gold's somber and mournful pieces (by far his best stuff).

 

[Turtletrekker]

Here we are talking about favorite episodes when the best may yet still be to come.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Certainly and I hope that's the case! But I'm trying to take the time to celebrate what we already have, especially to counter some of the heavier negative talk in other threads.

 

[The Wormhole]

Reveals: Did not see the Master's return coming, and did not see the Ruth Doctor coming either. I think they kept the lid on those very well. (Jack's return slightly less so)

IIRC, the Master returning actually did leak at some point in December 2019. Ruth Doctor was a genuine surprise though.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I must've stayed far removed from the spoilers because not only did I not know Jack or The Master were returning, I didn't even know Sacha Dhawan was going to appear at all, who I was already a big fan of because of An Adventure in Space and Time.

 

[Qonundrum]

The Master reveal in Spyfall and the previous Doctor reveal (complete with TARDIS somehow in police box form before it got stuck in police box form) blew me away

^^this, "Fugitive of the Judoon" is the era's best script. "Spyfall" being a close second, and Sacha Dhawan steals the show as the Master. Chibnall's writing for that 2-parter was first rate. His use of the Master is better than Moffat's and RTD's uses put together, though one can argue RTD's use turned the character into a literal looney tunes character that Moffat and Chibs both had to turn around after the damage done. (For all the talk of Chibnall allegedly doing that...)

But the paradox in "Fugitive", that the current incarnation has to rescue a previous one is a bit of a blunder that seems out of place in more sophisticated 21st century scripting. Saving a future incarnation makes more sense, right down to the TARDIS being a police box. It's either a big obvious clue that matches up with others (e.g. Master manipulated the Matrix just to humiliate the Doctor), or it's a big bungled oversight in the script. Given how much time Chibnall took to try to get around continuity issues, coupled with the series 12 finale feeling like a cliffhanger as if the story's not all been told yet, it's hard to tell.

IIRC, the Master returning actually did leak at some point in December 2019. Ruth Doctor was a genuine surprise though.

Especially when people were clamoring "Oh, 'Fugitive of the Judoon'. Must be the Doctor." It was the Doctor, but it was also the Doctor that threw everyone off and left everyone guessing all sorts of clever possibilities. Getting the audience to scurry to a history book, dictionary, or think of possibilities is not easy. Chibs' era isn't perfect, but it has been rather great in its own ways.

 

[Qonundrum]

I have really only one positive thing to say about the era, and so I'll keep my comments to that:

The Jo Martin Doctor was great. I'd love to see adventures with just her. I like that I can head-canon her character into the timeline pre-Chibnall BS, too (she could easily be the "real" Third Doctor, coming after Troughton and then regenerating into Pertwee with amnesia of the previous incarnation, which would explain why her TARDIS is a police box while having the other Doctors not remember her), but regardless I think she did a great job with what she had. I really think that she could have lead the show, at least based on what we saw of her.

I will say that, like many have said before (including me), I think that Whittaker could have been really good, but she was put in a terrible situation where no one could have succeeded. If I saw her in a multi-Doctor story in the future I'd be happy to see her, regardless of my opinion on her era.

That's another plus - for all the perceived mistakes of his first Doctor incarnation, his second Doctor he put in more than makes up for it. Both in Jo Martin's casting, which is sublime, and content - witty for all the right reasons and doesn't come across as another take on the Tenant/Smith halcyon days that everyone seems to want more of no matter how many times they try as hard. But for all the downer stuff, Martin's incarnation is due to Chibs and to throw her out as a limited one-off would be the worst thing to do.

That, and it still makes more sense for her to be a future incarnation as per my previous post above.

I agree that Whittaker was put into an unsavory situation. I think she likes the role, exudes confidence, is a good steward between series' filming... just saddled with more uneven scripts... but dang, the scripts that suit her justice - Spyfall, It Takes You Away, and Fugitive both are easy to rewatch. Rosa too, if only they didn't screw up the pacing and tone by shoving in Krasko - an interesting idea poorly executed.

Chibnall's great as a producer and putting things together, even if the stories are more a mixed bag than anything from the 80s could have ever hoped to mangle.

 

[douwed]

I really liked Jodie's first episode. It as emotional to lose Graham's wife/Ryan's gran. It was fun to see Jodie's Doctor make her own sonic. The music has been a breath of fresh air. I liked Murray Gold's scores but 12 series was enough. Having three companions was good too.

The only parts where I tuned out was when it got really preachy, other than that it has been fun.