News A case of plagiarism

[Robert Bruce Scott]

I'm not sure how he thought that this was an okay thing to do.

"Rule of Acquisition #11: Never hesitate to profit from the labor and creativity of other people. But do not claim their creations as your own, unless you can get away with it.”

Although in this case, I'm hard pressed to see what the profit motive is.

Okay... you can look up the rules of acquisition. There's a list of every rule that was mentioned in the franchise... and that isn't one of them. But there's also no rule #11...

I've definitely had times when my muse has left me high and dry as well as the joys of depression robbing me of any sense of creativity, so it I know it can be frustrating not to do something you love to do

For the Beagle series I've taken to using YES lyrics as writing prompts. Their lyrics are just weird enough that it actually works. There are a lot of places to find inspiration when you're stuck.

I don't think, rbs, you are getting away from the "Lord" reference now.

From my Google Blogspot:

Well, I'm changing my online identity for at least Facebook and QuoteV from Robert Bruce Scott to... Lord Robert Bruce Scott. People are welcome to ask me about it and I am, of course, justified in responding with disdain for their ignorance. "Duh... I AM a lord!"

That and whenever some stranger accosts me on the street or in the store by calling, "Sir! Sir!!" (as they are all too often wont to do), I will respond with, "That's Sire or Your Lordship to you!" And prance away in self-righteous pique.

Filthy commoners.

 

[Will The Serious]

There was a situation at the high school I went to about two years after I graduated when students were caught plagiarizing. It didn't end well for the teacher.

Of course, I don't know what happened at your school, but 'plagiarism' is a term thrown around rather recklessly in education. There are teachers that think a failure to cite sources correctly is the same as taking credit for another's work. Citing sources outside of the MLA or APA standards on a paper is nothing more than incorrect citation, it is not the same as plagiarism.

If it got to the point at your school where a teacher got in trouble, it was probably something more than a student citing a source incorrectly. I just wanted to point out the fuzzy line that I personally have been witness to over and over with the misunderstanding of the meaning of that word. It drives me nuts when teachers warn their students that they could be plagiarizing if they fail to follow the official scholastic standards.

-Will

 

[Will The Serious]

That and whenever some stranger accosts me on the street or in the store by calling, "Sir! Sir!!" (as they are all too often wont to do), I will respond with, "That's Sire or Your Lordship to you!" And prance away in self-righteous pique.

In any case, if you haven't been knighted, 'sir' is technically the wrong title, as well. 'Good person', 'gentle person', or some such derivation is more traditionally correct for the untitled ('unentitled' would be the true term for such beings. I mean, if you are from the middle ages).

-Will

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

When it comes to inspiration I try and draw from a wide range of sources. Sometimes ideas just pop into my head due to the era I've chosen to write it, the characters I've created and their backstories, or sometimes even because of the ship they're on, I've also seen episodes of other shows and thought about how some plot elements might work if they were Trekified, I've also perused the unused script ideas from across the franchise on Memory Alpha and found a fun concept that might work for a specific crew of mine, and I've also found potential stories for Trek tabletop games that have interesting elements.

Each time I use an idea or concept from somewhere else I always take the bare bones of it then go off and do my own thing, and since my characters are mostly mine (I have used a few canon characters here and there) then what they'd do, how they'd react and feel about situations would always be very different.

 

[mthompson1701]

If it got to the point at your school where a teacher got in trouble, it was probably something more than a student citing a source incorrectly. I just wanted to point out the fuzzy line that I personally have been witness to over and over with the misunderstanding of the meaning of that word. It drives me nuts when teachers warn their students that they could be plagiarizing if they fail to follow the official scholastic standards.

The teacher actually lost their job, for doing the right thing. The parents were upset because "their kids wouldn't do that" when they got caught. The parents went to the school board, and the school board backed the parents over their employee. Over twenty teachers quit at the end of the year, and it ended up on one of the CBS news shows airing on a Friday night a year later. Most of the school board either resigned in disgrace or voted out in the next election.

I'm glad to see this situation was handled a lot better than that one was.

 

[Will The Serious]

Emotions run high when parents and their children are involved. Decisions by administrators can be made to preserve their own jobs when lawyers' names appear on letterheads too.

-Will

 

[BrotherBenny]

Emotions run high when parents and their children are involved. Decisions by administrators can be made to preserve their own jobs when lawyers' names appear on letterheads too.

-Will

It boils down to people taking responsibility for their actions. If the parents had taken responsibility for their kids' actions and allowed the punishment to be meted out instead of "my kid wouldn't do that", everyone would have been a lot better off. Parents don't teach their kids to take responsibility anymore, they teach them to avoid it.

Getting back on topic, Elm shouldn't have done it in the first place, but when caught, should have heeded Picard's line from The First Duty. Perhaps things would have gone a little differently had he owned up and taken responsibility

 

[Robert Bruce Scott]

Elm shouldn't have done it in the first place, but when caught, should have heeded Picard's line from The First Duty. Perhaps things would have gone a little differently had he owned up and taken responsibility

Every community of monkeys self-regulates with particular interest to disciplining or, when necessary, exiling the free-rider. Shame and guilt are hard-wired into monkeys as a self-regulation to help them avoid becoming a free-rider. There is a reason that anti-free-rider rhetoric is so alluring to would-be political leaders. It's part of the basic wiring we come with. Successful, long-term free-riders either come without this wiring (sociopaths) or justify their actions in moralistic terms: "They deserve it," "It's nothing, really - no one will care," "That's what they get..."

Having worked in the prison system for close to a decade, I observed that the convicts were extremely moral people and murderers were the most fervent moralizers. "She had it coming..." "He shouldn't have done that to me..." "They should have been more careful..."

There's always a rationalization. Unless you're sociopathic, in which case, you don't need one.

 

[BrotherBenny]

That's an interesting take on humanity, and probably pretty close to the truth. Unfortunately.

On the note of prisons, if you haven't read Camelopard's Supermax series, it's brilliant. Not sure if you can still find it around here, but it's an amazing read.

 

[Cryogenator]

That's why I'm glad I haven't changed my username since 2000...

If you don't mind sharing, what was it before? Is your current one an intentional reference to the Pokémon, or is that a coincidence which you later embraced?

I had a private site as well, but it died around when the Twin Towers did... I had a link page on my last BBS, but didn't bother bringing it here.

Have you checked the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine to see if they're archived?

The first of those films was the subject of half a dozen plagiarism suits.

'Plagiarism' is a term thrown around rather recklessly in education.

Antiplagiarism software identified a single sentence of a paper I wrote in an industrial and organizational psychology class as "plagiarized." It was indeed an exact match from an online news article, which stunned me since not only did I not copy and paste, I'm also 100% certain I never even read that article. I made a 98 on the paper but I think I would've made a 99 or 100 otherwise.

Over twenty teachers quit at the end of the year, and it ended up on one of the CBS news shows airing on a Friday night a year later. Most of the school board either resigned in disgrace or voted out in the next election.

This seems to be the story. I applaud the teachers who bravely showed solidarity. The article mentions a few other prominent cases of plagiarism coming to light around the same time:

Also in recent months, some of the nation's top historians, including Stephen Ambrose, have been accused of borrowing passages from other authors without proper credit.

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph Ellis was suspended without pay for a year from Mount Holyoke College after lying to his students about serving in Vietnam. Notre Dame University football coach George O'Leary resigned after falsifying his athletic and academic achievements on his résumé.​

This reminds me of Shakespeare adapting his Romeo and Juliet from Arthur Brooke's Romeus and Juliet, which in turn was translated from an Italian novella by Matteo Bandello (possibly by way of a French translation by Pierre Boaistuau). Cymbeline, Much Ado About Nothing, Twelfth Night, and Edward III are also based on stories by Bandello. Also, antiplagiarism software identified the unpublished manuscript A Brief Discourse of Rebellion and Rebels by George North as the source for eleven of the Bard's plays.

Is William Shakespeare the most celebrated plagiarist of all time?

Having worked in the prison system for close to a decade, I observed that the convicts were extremely moral people and murderers were the most fervent moralizers. "She had it coming..." "He shouldn't have done that to me..." "They should have been more careful..."

...and every once in a while, a judge or jury accepts such arguments!

That's an interesting take on humanity, and probably pretty close to the truth. Unfortunately.

On the note of prisons, if you haven't read Camelopard's Supermax series, it's brilliant. Not sure if you can still find it around here, but it's an amazing read.

I assume this is it. Apparently, he changed his name to Juzam Djinn and then was banned sometime after that (anyone know why?).

 

[Cryogenator]

I just noticed this incredibly ironic comment in another thread...

 

[Will The Serious]

Antiplagiarism software identified a single sentence of a paper I wrote in an industrial and organizational psychology class as "plagiarized." It was indeed an exact match from an online news article, which stunned me since not only did I not copy and paste, I'm also 100% certain I never even read that article.

It doesn't surprise me. When writing about any idea that anyone else has ever addressed in writing, it seems highly likely that some sentences may match. Culturally, you can find the same phrases spoken by an entire population. Sentence structure, colloquial word use and regional sentence construction promises a limited number of ways to say something. Others have likely said the same exact words many times before.

As far as school assignments go, there isn't a high school or four year degree assignment that it is reasonable to believe that a provided fact originated with the paper's author, if they haven't explicitly stated that assertion.

Most students are not trying to take credit for any original work except the exercise of writing the paper themselves. Some quote that failed to get quoted is far more likely to just be an, "oops, I forgot to cite that." Than some claim for its original creation. The point of such papers is to encourage a student to learn something about the subject and how to put a research paper together. Expecting original material at that level is usually not the point at all.

On the other hand, to take someone else's paper and pass it off as yours, to meet the assignment, subverts the purpose of the assignment, whether the student has permission or legally paid for the copyright. No teacher would appreciate that.

It's only plagiarism if someone who did not create the work tries to take credit for the work. Making money from someone else's creation, with or without credit, where permission is not given, that's copyright infringement. That's when Universal Studios and other such intellectual property owners start getting upset.

-Will

 

[Will The Serious]

Is William Shakespeare the most celebrated plagiarist of all time?

Or Plato.
It was common practice in the ancient sciences, for the original author to credit their teacher with the idea. This was done to lend legitimacy to the concept and make it more acceptable. They also re-copied older works and integrated freely, the lessons they were taught into their own works. I'm sure the ancient philosopher's and mathematicians and explorers had to struggle with very similar concepts.

-Will

 

[BrotherBenny]

If you don't mind sharing, what was it before? Is your current one an intentional reference to the Pokémon, or is that a coincidence which you later embraced?

Have you checked the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine to see if they're archived?

The first of those films was the subject of half a dozen plagiarism suits.

Antiplagiarism software identified a single sentence of a paper I wrote in an industrial and organizational psychology class as "plagiarized." It was indeed an exact match from an online news article, which stunned me since not only did I not copy and paste, I'm also 100% certain I never even read that article. I made a 98 on the paper but I think I would've made a 99 or 100 otherwise.

This seems to be the story. I applaud the teachers who bravely showed solidarity. The article mentions a few other prominent cases of plagiarism coming to light around the same time:

Also in recent months, some of the nation's top historians, including Stephen Ambrose, have been accused of borrowing passages from other authors without proper credit.

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph Ellis was suspended without pay for a year from Mount Holyoke College after lying to his students about serving in Vietnam. Notre Dame University football coach George O'Leary resigned after falsifying his athletic and academic achievements on his résumé.​

This reminds me of Shakespeare adapting his Romeo and Juliet from Arthur Brooke's Romeus and Juliet, which in turn was translated from an Italian novella by Matteo Bandello (possibly by way of a French translation by Pierre Boaistuau). Cymbeline, Much Ado About Nothing, Twelfth Night, and Edward III are also based on stories by Bandello. Also, antiplagiarism software identified the unpublished manuscript A Brief Discourse of Rebellion and Rebels by George North as the source for eleven of the Bard's plays.

Is William Shakespeare the most celebrated plagiarist of all time?

...and every once in a while, a judge or jury accepts such arguments!

I assume this is it. Apparently, he changed his name to Juzam Djinn and then was banned sometime after that (anyone know why?).

That's it! No idea why he was banned. Wonder if the mods would let us know. Hint, hint.

 

[Count Zero]

I don't think he was banned. I think he had two accounts and that one was closed.

 

[Robert Bruce Scott]

It's only plagiarism if someone who did not create the work tries to take credit for the work. Making money from someone else's creation, with or without credit, where permission is not given, that's copyright infringement. That's when Universal Studios and other such intellectual property owners start getting upset.

At least a dozen hit songs sounded enough like a previous hit by Tom Petty that they were bought to his attention. In each case he refused to take the issue to court on the basis that there are a limited number of potential melodies and chord patterns within common western musical patterns.

The point of such papers is to encourage a student to learn something about the subject and how to put a research paper together. Expecting original material at that level is usually not the point at all.

To sum up... Come to your conclusions, then seek out quotes that, taken out of context, seem to support that bias and ignore all other evidence. Which is also how Congress develops budgets and Americans come to their political decisions.

Thanks!! rbs

 

[WarpTenLizard]

So...he was just copy-pasting other people's fanfics and presenting them as his own? For what purpose?

 

[Cryogenator]

Internet points.