News A case of plagiarism

[Count Zero]

Some of you may wonder why admiralelm111 has been banned and why his threads are locked. Some of you may have already seen my post in his latest thread.

In short: we were made aware by @Gerrex that the series "Into the Void" is blatantly plagiarized from the Vesta series written by @Starkers. I contacted admiralelm111 and he admitted to the plagiarism. By that time, a cursory investigation by my fellow mod @Michael (thanks for the work) had already turned up a couple of other stories that were lifted from elsewhere, mostly fanfiction.net. admiralelm111 also admitted to that but always only to the stuff we had already uncovered and not coming clean. He claimed he was sorry but I find that honestly hard to believe. It's also impossible for us to ascertain which of the stories he posted here are really his.

Here are the examples we found (minus one that has already been deleted):
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/another-dominion-war-story.306644 - original: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13761821/1/Voyagers-of-the-Blasch-Zhavos-Battle-of-Tellar

“The Bear and the Wolf”(https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-bear-and-the-wolf.314171/) - original: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1777868/1/The-Bear-and-the-Wolf

“Star Trek: USS Keenser“ / “The Dream of Life” rips off this story: https://fanfiction.net/s/1158/1/The-Dream-of-Life

“Doctor Who: The Wanderer's Journey” steals from this Doctor Who Fan Stories audio drama: https://archive.org/details/DWFS101ABitterTheft

I'm still stunned by the blatantness of it all.

What will happen next?
The plan is to depublish his story threads because we can't be sure they're not plagiarised. So, eventually, the links in this post will stop working for the general public. But for now, they still work so you can check it out for yourselves.

I'll leave this topic open for questions and comments for now. Please behave.

 

[Robert Bruce Scott]

I stared at the emojis and couldn't find an adequate one. I'm not angry or sad. Just mystified. Kind of casts a pall on everything for the moment.

But perhaps now is a good time to talk about inspiration, writing prompts, attribution, references, and outright plagiarism. Not that I think anyone else here has any such issue. But mulling all that over might be... I don't know... therapeutic?

Better to talk about that than speculate about individual motivations. That would just be depressing.

 

[Michael]

I stared at the emojis and couldn't find an adequate one. I'm not angry or sad. Just mystified. Kind of casts a pall on everything for the moment.

But perhaps now is a good time to talk about inspiration, writing prompts, attribution, references, and outright plagiarism. Not that I think anyone else here has any such issue. But mulling all that over might be... I don't know... therapeutic?

Better to talk about that than speculate about individual motivations. That would just be depressing.

This strikes me as a very sensible reaction. Personally I’m still shocked that someone could have the nerve and, frankly, the stupidity to do something like this for years on end. Just doesn’t make any sense to me. Kudos to @Gerrex for noticing it and bringing it to our attention.

I know from going through most of admiralelm111’s threads that you were probably one of his most loyal readers on here, @Robert Bruce Scott. Always at the ready with friendly encouragement, positivity and constructive feedback. So I’m sure especially for you this must be a sore disappointment. And I just wanted to say: Please don’t let this bad experience impact these genuinely good character traits of yours.

 

[Cobalt Frost]

This is.. disappointing.

 

[Robert Bruce Scott]

...Always at the ready with friendly encouragement, positivity and constructive feedback. So I’m sure especially for you this must be a sore disappointment. And I just wanted to say: Please don’t let this bad experience impact these genuinely good character traits of yours.

Thanks for the kind words! As I said, I'm really more mystified than anything. Just seems like a really low-stakes game. Not healthy. But I prefer not to speculate. I'm not walking in those shoes.

Thanks!! rbs

 

[Gibraltar]

I've known admiralelm11 for years, and interact with him frequently on number of platforms. I'm angry and disappointed in him, and thoroughly sick at heart about this. I know that IRL he has some life challenges that might put a slightly different flavor on all this, but nothing that would impair his understanding of right and wrong.

Then again, if he's willing to lie about stealing the work of others, everything I thought I knew about him via Facebook and other sites could just as easily be a fiction.

Dammit.

 

[Will The Serious]

I'm really more mystified than anything.

This is my primary reaction, as well, but then I read Gibralter's post,

I've known admiralelm11 for years, and interact with him frequently on number of platforms. I'm angry and disappointed in him, and thoroughly sick at heart about this. I know that IRL he has some life challenges that might put a slightly different flavor on all this, but nothing that would impair his understanding of right and wrong.

Then again, if he's willing to lie about stealing the work of others, everything I thought I knew about him via Facebook and other sites could just as easily be a fiction.

Dammit.

and a certain sense can be made out of it. This is all speculation and an attempt to find understanding, even sympathy, where there's no knowledge, but if admiralelm111 had a limited life outside of his online life, there may be a derth of confidence and a feeling that the appearance of creativity and production was needed to maintain the friendship and admiration of others.

I'm making this all up, I don't know anything, and I would have to conclude, like Count Zero suggested in his statement,

...depublish his story threads because we can't be sure they're not plagiarised.

that every piece of published writing was stolen.

It does not sound like any financial benefits were gained by him, nor any losses were suffered by the real authors, but that too is speculation.

This kind of issue will always be unpleasant to deal with. Thank you, Gerrex, Count Zero and Michael for your commitment and work.

-Will

 

[Oddish]

That's why I'm glad I haven't changed my username since 2000... if I import a story from a previous era in my life, you can be sure it's mine.

 

[Starkers]

As the aggrieved party (or as it appears one of many aggrieved parties) I'd like to thank @Gerrex (nice username) for highlighting this, and @Count Zero for the thorough and considered way they've dealt with this. I was initially very angry, but I've relaxed somewhat now. It's a salient reminder that while we obsess about AI ripping off creators, there's always been an issue with human beings doing it as well.

One upside to this, is that my Vesta Google site died a death a few years ago and I never really replaced it, but I think I'm going to create a new site now, at least I'll know my stuff is out there that way I may have left fanfic behind but I'm still very proud of the work I did on Vesta.

 

[Oddish]

One upside to this, is that my Vesta Google site died a death a few years ago and I never really replaced it, but I think I'm going to create a new site now, at least I'll know my stuff is out there that way I may have left fanfic behind but I'm still very proud of the work I did on Vesta.

I had a private site as well, but it died around when the Twin Towers did... I had a link page on my last BBS, but didn't bother bringing it here.

 

[Robert Bruce Scott]

That's why I'm glad I haven't changed my username since 2000... if I import a story from a previous era in my life, you can be sure it's mine.

My username is my name. (Technically, it's Lord Robert Bruce Scott as my mother purchased a square foot of land for me in Scotland that I will never set foot on or probably even ever see a photo of...)

One upside to this, is that my Vesta Google site died a death a few years ago and I never really replaced it, but I think I'm going to create a new site now, at least I'll know my stuff is out there that way I may have left fanfic behind but I'm still very proud of the work I did on Vesta.

Please let us know when you do. All of the comments I made about it being very creative material when Jack was publishing it remain true. Only my understanding of who the author is has changed.

I published my Star Trek Hunter series to my personal Google Blogspot before putting it on fanfic sites primarily to establish ownership. But those are first drafts and the versions I published here are far more refined due to a few generations of editing. I suppose I should do the same with the Star Beagle Adventures, but I think my writing style is so far off the wall and my trek-verse so weird, that, like Hawku, it would be a serious stretch for anyone to try to pretend to have independently created it (or even want to...)

I'd like to thank @Gerrex (nice username) for highlighting this, and @Count Zero for the thorough and considered way they've dealt with this.

Amen. Thanks!! rbs

 

[Will The Serious]

(Technically, it's Lord Robert Bruce Scott as my mother purchased a square foot of land for me in Scotland that I will never set foot on or probably even ever see a photo of...)

Episode 1, season 3 The New Office, of the 70's TV British comedy show, The Goodies, saw the three roommates, Tim, Bill, and Grahm, trying to buy land for the construction of a new office. They paid £100,000 for the land that turned out to be a square foot of sod brought out on a plate with a SOLD sign stuck in it.

-Will

 

[Starkers]

Please let us know when you do. All of the comments I made about it being very creative material when Jack was publishing it remain true. Only my understanding of who the author is has changed.

Thank you I will

 

[BrotherBenny]

I am mad.

It seems to me to completely miss the point of being a Star Trek fan if you're going to do something like that.

Was anything his or was it all stolen? I know that question has been asked, but I'm still mad that it had to be.

Rest assured, everything I write is from my own brain, inspired from the canon we love.

 

[Hawku]

I published my Star Trek Hunter series to my personal Google Blogspot before putting it on fanfic sites primarily to establish ownership. But those are first drafts and the versions I published here are far more refined due to a few generations of editing. I suppose I should do the same with the Star Beagle Adventures, but I think my writing style is so far off the wall and my trek-verse so weird, that, like Hawku, it would be a serious stretch for anyone to try to pretend to have independently created it (or even want to...)

True! My stuff is so off the wall, I'll never see this honour.

In short: we were made aware by @Gerrex that the series "Into the Void" is blatantly plagiarized from the Vesta series written by @Starkers.

This sucks. Sorry to hear this happened.

 

[Bynar0110]

@Starkers I'm sorry this happened to you.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

This is a sad time for the TrekBBS fanfic community, how someone could do that to another fan baffles me. Part of me would love to find out what his reasoning was behind it, though I know no excuse can repair the damage that has been done.

I've definitely had times when my muse has left me high and dry as well as the joys of depression robbing me of any sense of creativity, so it I know it can be frustrating not to do something you love to do, but even at my lowest point I'd never have even thought of trying something like that. It really leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

I really like his Lordship @Robert Bruce Scott's suggestion about using this time to discuss inspiration, etc, to clear the air a little and reassure the other writers and the many readers that come into this wee nook of TrekBBS about what it is we all believe in and stand for.

 

[Will The Serious]

I really like his Lordship @Robert Bruce Scott's suggestion about using this time to discuss inspiration, etc, to clear the air a little and reassure the other writers and the many readers that come into this wee nook of TrekBBS about what it is we all believe in and stand for.

Agreed.

For my part, I am a Trek fan, it is my favorite vision of our future, or at least TOS is and generally TNG, but I don't write my fan fiction because of that. I am honestly not that big of a Trek fan that I write my stories to expand that universe or experience more Trek. I write in the Trek universe because I have a creative urge and the Trekverse allows me to concentrate on elements of my story ideas without having to build a world that is already masterfully created and meets my needs.

The universality of Star Trek means I can fit my story into a world that is both science fiction and very familiar to my readers. Everyone knows what a transporter is, they know what warp drives do, they understand the structure of the United Federation of Planets, without me having either to explain it or meticulously point out that I didn't create these things.

Everyone knows I didn't create Harkor Fenton Mudd, T'Pau, the Vulcan species or Romulans, Orions, Bynars, Coridanites, Tiburonians, etc. However, if I were to write rbs's character, Captain Howard, into my story, I would make it clear that Captain Howard belongs to Lord Robert Bruce Scott.

I write because I have a creative urge to manifest an idea. Stealing someone else's creative manifestation doesn't satisfy.

-Will

 

[Will The Serious]

Technically, it's Lord Robert Bruce Scott as my mother purchased a square foot of land for me in Scotland

his Lordship @Robert Bruce Scott

Captain Howard belongs to Lord Robert Bruce Scott.

Ha ha ha ha, I think, as a Captain in good standing of the TrekBBS forum, I should dub @Robert Bruce Scott, "Lord Bob". I don't think, rbs, you are getting away from the "Lord" reference now. However, if "Bob" doesn't appeal to you, I'm sure you can appeal that part of it. I do have to say, Lord Bob has a certain ring to it.

-Will

 

[mthompson1701]

I'm still mad about this, and shocked.

I'm not sure how he thought that this was an okay thing to do. It isn't. There was a situation at the high school I went to about two years after I graduated when students were caught plagiarizing. It didn't end well for the teacher.

However, this situation ended in a way I feel was proper. I've since cut off all contact with the individual involved, blocking them on social media. I don't want to be associated with anyone who would do things like this.
The funny thing is, last weekend I started to read "Into The Void" and thought this sounded familiar. When Gerrex pointed out where it actually came from, the light bulb went off, and it made total sense after that. I do feel that appropriate action was taken, and thanks to the mods for acting on this, and not letting it stand.

When I post stories here, they're mine. They came from my brain, to the keyboard, to here.