9X01 "The Magician's Apprentice" Grading/Discussion)

[Starkers]

I have the feeling that the showrunner is developing a mythos where the Time Lords are these god-like beings who lord over and control time and space. They exist in realms far beyond our understanding. I never had this feeling, or rather this impression, when I watched the classic Doctor Who.

But isn't this how the Timelords were originally portrayed way back in The War Games?

The ratings were not good.

The BBC headline: "Doctor Who sees millions desert opening episode"

Viewers in their millions deserted Doctor Who as it returned to BBC One for a new series, according to overnight figures.

An average 4.6m watched Peter Capaldi back for his second series playing the Time Lord, compared with 6.8m for his full debut last year.

It was roundly beaten by ITV's X Factor, which had 7.3 million viewers.

I'm sure that, once the iplayer numbers are in, the number of viewers will be respectable. Doctor Who is timeshiftable in the way that something like The X-Factor is not.

It was still the most watched BBC show on Saturday night, and like you say once we factor in all the timeshifting etc they should look healthier. I think last year it was more of an 'event' given it was Capaldi's début.

As a purely academic exercise I wonder how low the ratings would have to get before the Beeb pulled the plug? I suspect there'd be regeneration first to revive things (not that I think they need reviving but from the BBC's perspective.

Anyway onto the episode, loved it. Not quite 5 stars but close to it. I thought the tank/guitar stuff was a trifle indulgent and off pace, but the rest of it was excellent. I hadn't realised it was still Bleach playing Davros his performance was so different! Great to see all the Daleks, great to see Missy back, and UNIT. Clara was good, the Doctor was good, Missy was great (seriously Gomez can play that part as long as she likes for me). Missy's killing the UNIT guys was icy as anything. I think the one thing that felt off was that Clara seemed to warm to Missy a bit too quickly, especially after Missy's jibe about Danny.

Great episode though and hope the second part lives up to it.

 

[diankra]

Is there any chance of transferring the Sixth Doctor/Big Finish discussion into its own thread?

 

[ATimson]

As a purely academic exercise I wonder how low the ratings would have to get before the Beeb pulled the plug? I suspect there'd be regeneration first to revive things (not that I think they need reviving but from the BBC's perspective.

It probably depends on how much money it's ploughing into the BBC coffers via BBC Worldwide.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I didn't really care for this one, just didn't feel like the pieces come together to make a compelling whole. I've been thinking the beginning of the episode might have worked better as a coda to an episode with the Daleks and Davros. Imagine an episode where the Doctor shows remarkable anger at the Daleks and Davros, perhaps involving the death of someone close to the Doctor which then trails off with the Doctor abandoning young Davros. Instead we spend the episode searching for the Doctor and the aftermath but not the reasoning for his selfish decision to turn himself into Davros abandoning the universe to the Daleks he helped to create. Maybe part 2 will bring it together but I felt like part 1 could've been better. (I think the prologue helps some and should be integrated into the episode)

BTW, on a lighter not, Capaldi on the tank reminded me of Army of Darkness a little.

 

[MacLeod]

Well perhaps the later air time didn't help ratings, When did it start 19:40 and next week it's what 19:45, DW might work better in the 19:00 slot.

As for the episode itself, I would give it maybe a 7 out of 10 at best. Wasn't over keen on the majority of scene in medieval times, the whole stopping the planes thing could have been an episode itself. But aside from that wasn't to bad.

 

[Stevil2001]

I will say that I am tired about Moffat stories about the Doctor's knowledge of his imminent demise. Is this the third? Or fourth?

I would say second.

Technically the Doctor had about a half-hour of foreknowledge in "Let's Kill Hitler" after he was poisoned. And then there's "The Impossible Astronaut", but he knew about the Tesselecta before he went there to "die", so that shouldn't count.

Am I forgetting anything else, or is there just Trenzalore and this?

Trenzalore again, in "The Time of the Doctor," yeah? And I was counting all of Season 7 as a unit (but especially his behavior in "Closing Time"/"Wedding of River Song," before he concocts the out with the Tesselecta.

 

[Cutter John]

So why is the Doctor surprised about Skaro coming back? The 11th Doctor was there already.

I took it to mean that he was upset that he'd been taken too Skaro. It was Missy who was upset that it had returned.

Why does Missy offer the Daleks time travel when they could already time travel?

Maybe she means easy time travel. Just press a few buttons rather than messign about with time corridors, etc.

Why is Davros alive? Ok, maybe he escaped at the end of 'Journey's End' but are those other Daleks from his ship too? Is that supreme Dalek and is that Dalek Caan? What about the other Dalek empire we saw in 'Time of the Doctor'?

I'm guessing their came from the daleks we saw way back in Victory of the Daleks. They found Davros and decided to make him their pet once again.

 

[Marc]

Was a bit suprised at the Doctor with his tank and guitar. Usually the Doctor's been pretty big on limiting anachronisms when it comes to timelines and technologies.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Why does Missy offer the Daleks time travel when they could already time travel?

Maybe she means easy time travel. Just press a few buttons rather than messign about with time corridors, etc.

Forget the TARDIS, they should integrate vortex manipulators into their casings.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Well perhaps the later air time didn't help ratings, When did it start 19:40 and next week it's what 19:45, DW might work better in the 19:00 slot.

As for the episode itself, I would give it maybe a 7 out of 10 at best. Wasn't over keen on the majority of scene in medieval times, the whole stopping the planes thing could have been an episode itself. But aside from that wasn't to bad.

Yeah that time slot is just weird, people usually throw the channel over on the hour or the half hour, this 20 mins to is just a strange time slot for one of the supposed BBC jewels.

 

[MacLeod]

Why does Missy offer the Daleks time travel when they could already time travel?

Maybe she means easy time travel. Just press a few buttons rather than messign about with time corridors, etc.

Forget the TARDIS, they should integrate vortex manipulators into their casings.

Well the cult of Skaro seemed to have that ability, given the emergency temporal shift.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Maybe with recording, sky plus, BBC Iplayer and streaming, not to mention American viewing figures, BBC doesn't worry so much as it used to about the actual broadcast figures.

 

[Relayer1]

Missy was much better here than last season that's for sure.

Well, I hated her much less this time out. That's progress ! Great episode though.

I'd say quality or complexity isn't a major issue in the declining viewing figures. There may be some little effect of Capaldi's age losing some of the younger viewers, but I'd say it's just run its course. It was never going to maintain the incredible popularity of the earlier seaons.

I can't see the Beeb letting it go completely, but relegating it to specials at Easter and Christmas and if we're lucky an occasional three part special is probably the end result.

I'd be O.K. with that if the episodes they do produce are good quality.

 

[Procutus]

I thought that the score overwhelmed the dialog in spots.

Ditto that. There were a couple of instances where I wanted to wind it back (couldn't at the time, watching live) to try to hear what was said. Add that to the accents, and it made it very difficult at times.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I thought that the score overwhelmed the dialog in spots.

Ditto that. There were a couple of instances where I wanted to wind it back (couldn't at the time, watching live) to try to hear what was said. Add that to the accents, and it made it very difficult at times.

I've come to the point that I usually watch it with the captions on.

 

[Timby]

I also was unsure about when in time on Skaro this was supposed to be taking place. Missy offered the Daleks time travel as if they didn't have it yet, which suggests early in their history. But, the mix of classic and new series Daleks muddies that issue.

Yeah, that confused me a bit, too, considering the Daleks' time machine in The Chase was explicitly more advanced than the TARDIS.

What I did really like is that they didn't even bother with an explanation for Davros. Last we saw him he was in a time-displaced section of space sitting on top of a giant bomb screaming that he'd rather die than be saved by the Doctor, then he's just back and nobody even bothers to question it because of course Davros is still alive, that's his thing.

So, whatever, it's Doctor Who and everything will come out in the wash.

Just one question; what relevance does the title have to the story?

The next episode is titled The Witch's Familiar; this episode had a lot of dialogue about Clara's relationship with the Doctor, and I'm guessing next week will be about how Clara perceives Missy, and I think it's going to be an episode very heavily focused on both of them.

Something that stuck out to me was the exterminations:

Both Clara and Missy start writhing in pain before the whole beam of light thing envelops them, which is very different from any other extermination we've seen before. I have a hunch that Missy teleported them both out to lead the Daleks to believe they were exterminated, and I wouldn't be shocked if next week is basically a Missy / Clara heist to free the Doctor.

 

[The Wormhole]

And, who is in charge of UNIT? In the courtyard, it was not clear to me who was in charge of the snipers. Hell, it was not clear to me who placed the snipers at the courtyard. When the snipers were at the courtyard, UNIT did not know who was controlling the planes. So, how could UNIT send snipers to a threat they did not know yet existed?

The snipers arrived with Clara and the guys in suits, and were requested by Missy for the purposes of making UNIT feel comfortable.

Then, in the courtyard, it was alleged that the Brigadier's daughter could order the snipers to fire. Then again, Clara said she had control of the snipers. She could order them to fire. So, who was in charge?

Kate Stewart is in charge of UNIT overall, and therefore the snipers have to obey her orders. Meanwhile, Clara apparently was granted authority over the snipers and should she want them to shoot, they would.

[quoteAnd, who is charge of the Earth? It seemed the Doctor was still the President of Earth, or did I miss something in the exchange about between Clara and BD about the President?[/quote]

As explained in Death in Heaven, the President of Earth is only in effect in emergency situations involving global threat, and is primarily for the purposes of guaranteeing the Doctor's cooperation.

What I did really like is that they didn't even bother with an explanation for Davros. Last we saw him he was in a time-displaced section of space sitting on top of a giant bomb screaming that he'd rather die than be saved by the Doctor, then he's just back and nobody even bothers to question it because of course Davros is still alive, that's his thing.

Meh, it's not like this is the first time Davros has returned from death without explanation.

Both Clara and Missy start writhing in pain before the whole beam of light thing envelops them, which is very different from any other extermination we've seen before.

Well, this was a maximum extermination.

God the music is so damn loud on this show.

I've never understood the "music is too loud" complaint, but it makes even less sense these days. Ever since Moffat took over the music is significantly less bombastic than it was back in RTD's day.

 

[MacLeod]

But it's not like we haven't seen Davros return from seemingly being Dead before. Viewers likey thought him dead at the end of "Genesis of the Daleks" or at the end of "Resurrection of the Daleks" etc....

 

[DWF]

It's pretty obvious that Missy saved Clara the real question is why? I think Missy is still playing her own game with Clara and the Doctor.

 

[Timby]

What I did really like is that they didn't even bother with an explanation for Davros. Last we saw him he was in a time-displaced section of space sitting on top of a giant bomb screaming that he'd rather die than be saved by the Doctor, then he's just back and nobody even bothers to question it because of course Davros is still alive, that's his thing.

Meh, it's not like this is the first time Davros has returned from death without explanation.

That was my point. I said I liked it.