Sorry, my bad. I for some reason thought you said "didn't." Clearly I should read things a bit more carefully.
9X01 "The Magician's Apprentice" Grading/Discussion)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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Sorry, my bad. I for some reason thought you said "didn't." Clearly I should read things a bit more carefully.
I suspect production would move to Worldwide and BBC 1 would be one of the markets to which the program was sold before the the plug was pulled altogether, sort of the way Ripper Street was handled.
Did anyone else laugh when the Daleks all stared with Procure Procure!. They sure love their action verbs.
I'm a little surprised at the whole false dichotomy about killing the child or letting him go to become a dictator/bad guy. If there really were an option of going back to someone's youth why not just take them in and raise them in a way that they wouldn't need to be that way, or all we all convinced that people are born evil.
I felt like the episode had too much stuff just happen but I'm used to fast moving things with Moffat's Who stories. I'm going to vote 4/5.
I thought the Colony of snakes: 1. was supposed to be slithering but reminded me too much of a rollerskating monk and 2. reminded me too much of some He-Man villains, especially King Hiss.
I'm a little surprised at the whole false dichotomy about killing the child or letting him go to become a dictator/bad guy. If there really were an option of going back to someone's youth why not just take them in and raise them in a way that they wouldn't need to be that way, or all we all convinced that people are born evil.
I felt like the episode had too much stuff just happen but I'm used to fast moving things with Moffat's Who stories. I'm going to vote 4/5.
I thought the Colony of snakes: 1. was supposed to be slithering but reminded me too much of a rollerskating monk and 2. reminded me too much of some He-Man villains, especially King Hiss.
It's not as though we saw him die in Journey's End. He didn't even say he would Rather die. He just wasn't going anywhere with the Doctor that day, after having his latest scheme spoiled by the Doctor Donna.
He may've gotten a little scorched as the flames obscured him from sight, but it's easy enough to imagine him 'porting out a second later.
I just say, Welcome Back! I HAVE missed these conversations and evil victory monologues.
Who does it better than Davros?
Maybe, but BF can't make the TV show do anything. The show can, and almost certainly will eventually, do things that invalidate at least a few stories. BF has no say in the matter because they're just a random group that has the license to make commercial Doctor who fanfiction essentially, they can't make the show do anything, or stop it from doing anything.
As far as I'm concerned, The Ultimate Foe goes right into Time and the Rani. Nothing canon inbetween, unless a future episode of the show somehow mentions there being something. I'm sure I could find written fanfiction that also covers the events right before the regeneration, and it would be just as legitimate as the Big Finish product. Or, I could watch Time and the Rani, which actually shows exactly what happened. The Doctor was flying along after The Ultimate Foe (probably right after leaving Galifrey at the end of that story), the TARDIS gets caught, he bonked his head, he regenerates. That's it, end of story. Its a lame ending for him, but its what happened.
That is terrifying, mostly because the 7th Doctor makes the War Doctor look like the 5th Doctor, so I can only imagine what atrocities the 7th Doctor needed to get out of the way before regenerating.
Yeah, that was an annoyance in The Five Doctors, but just a flaw in an entertaining story in my opinion.
Its not about good or bad. Charley's a canonical companion... "whether you like it, or not."
Yeah, someone named Charley is a canon companion. They didn't say Charley Pollard, and in all of time and space there are probably trillions of people with both her name and the names of the other companions anyway. Until they're on screen, they can't be confirmed as the Big Finish companions. Plus, they could be companions, but never had a single of the released adventures with him. Saying their names doesn't retroactively put all of their stories in canon.
, his plans like most villian plans are usually defeated by The Doctor.
That is pretty much what I expect the Doctor to try in the second part. The episode is called The Magician's Apprentice, after all.
We saw him aim the weapon, but who says he itends to shoot young Davros.
He is probably just exterminating the hand mines...
Btw. In Genesis of the Daleks it was still land mines, now it's hand mines. The looks on the writers team's faces when Moffat explained that he literally meant it when he said it must have been priceless.
Than you and I are watching two different shows.
That is pretty much what I expect the Doctor to try in the second part. The episode is called The Magician's Apprentice, after all.
We saw him aim the weapon, but who says he itends to shoot young Davros.
He is probably just exterminating the hand mines...
Btw. In Genesis of the Daleks it was still land mines, now it's hand mines. The looks on the writers team's faces when Moffat explained that he literally meant it when he said it must have been priceless.
Had they been hand mimes the Doctor would've saved Davros instantly, we know how he feels about mimes.
Sure. Thats almost always the rule in fiction.
However, BBC can, and has, credit the writer of a BF piece of work for inspiration for a similarly structured story. Case in point, the Cybermen two-part story in season 2, which credited Marc Platt, the writer of BF's Spare Parts, for the inspiration of the story.
There's also the matter of fan-fiction. its not. Commerical fan-fiction is inherently a contradictory term, since it implies that one of those two is wrong. And BF is certainly commercial, and it has impact on what happens on TV, because it directly inspired the aforementioned two-parter.
What a show-runner is still something that I can't forsee. But like I keep telling you, the BBC and BF work in tandem. That means, the BBC department of DW (and not Moffat himself, as you incorrectly assume) has to approve the scripts that BF works on at all relevant ranges, and as such there's a clear co-operation between the entities to keep a certain consistency between the properties and maintain a level of surprise for both - like, BF cannot do a Robin Hood story, because they'll release their own, or BF will use Nazi Germany as a setting, so any writer may be wary of that.
Long story short, BF's stuff is officially sanctioned by the BBC, to the extent that it extended their licence up until 2020. Which means, whatever happens, they'll be making canonical, proper DW.
And that literally makes no sense, as the Sixth Doctor wear different clothing in these two stories, as does, more noticeably, Mel herself! And besides, there's the very obvious matter that Mel is out of her time stream there - in fact, she's from the Doctor's future, and needs to return there.
Furthermore, there's clearly a passage of time passed, as Mel herself comments how they've travelled for a while now.
You're dismissal of BF is unimportant, as its canonical and fan-fiction you'll find on the internet is not.BF also uses the original actors to play those parts, and specifically too - not a peripheral time traveller or something like the BBV Productions did.
Its lame, because it doesn't make sense at all, as I said earlier. For the same reasons. Simply put, it couldn't happen, and thanks to Big Finish, it didn't happen. The Sixth Doctor had loads of adventures inbetween The Ultimate Foe and Time and the Rani. Thankfully.
And seriously, what do you have against BF? The Sixth Doctor's fantastic in it, and he develops and progresses in a meaningful, fullfilling manner that is most satisfying, in the long run. He's one of my favorite Doctors, as a result.
I haven't gotten there, but it seems like the Seventh became a very sombre, weary character near the end, and maybe was welcoming the cheerier Eighth Doctor to come. I can't say - yet.That is terrifying, mostly because the 7th Doctor makes the War Doctor look like the 5th Doctor, so I can only imagine what atrocities the 7th Doctor needed to get out of the way before regenerating.
I like the story well, but it annoys the hell out of me. As someone who appreciates characterization and character interaction the most, its one of the show's most unforgiving mistakes for an anniversary show.
Of course they do. Thats where the intent of the author comes useful. Moffat clearly wrote that as a shout-out to Big Finish. He didn't invent those companions, he clearly was referencing characters that the Eighth Doctor interacted with. THIS is one clear case where Big Finish actually did influence something on TV, and yet you close your eyes and ears and pretend its not there.
Besides, even if we go with this lame logic, C'rizz's name is just C'rizz, which by association ties Charley with him, which by association ties the rest of them.
I'm watching it again and I totally see what you guys are saying about the music being too loud. Good god. Particularly when Missy is talking to Kate on the computer screen.
Here's another Moffat thing that makes no sense to me.
The Sisterhood of Karn survived the Time War? They've just been chilling out on their planet all this time? They're renegade Time Lords. So all this time, there have been ex-Time Lords in existence out there? The Doctor hasn't REALLY been alone all this time? But he never bothered to mention them before? Really?
Here's another Moffat thing that makes no sense to me.
The Sisterhood of Karn survived the Time War? They've just been chilling out on their planet all this time? They're renegade Time Lords. So all this time, there have been ex-Time Lords in existence out there? The Doctor hasn't REALLY been alone all this time? But he never bothered to mention them before? Really?
They were Gallifreyans (cause thats what they were, they weren't Time Lords/Ladies), but they've abandoned Gallifrey millenia ago.
Think Romulans.
Think Romulans.
Where'd you get that from? Because that's not a part of the show history.
Good point, the Sisterhood of Karn still being around is something that should be addressed. That's actually something kind of huge.
Regardless their actual position within Gallifreyan society or however far removed from Gallifrey they are, the fact there is someone related to Gallifrey still out there is pretty huge, considering we've been told the Doctor and the TARDIS were all that survived the Time War from Gallifrey. Or more accurately, didn't get sucked into a pocket universe. Kind of makes you wonder how much time the Doctor has spent with the Sisterhood since the Time War ended.
So, they basically took the premise of a Big Finish audio, and made it canon, since the original version wasn't canon. I'm not saying Big Finish hasn't done good or even great stories, just that they don't count as canon.
Inspiring a story, like I say above, actually hurts the "BF is canon" argument. They can inspire episodes of the show, but they aren't part of the show. I could see that.
That's normal tie-in oversight, it doesn't make the stories canon. The BBC just doesn't want BF to step on the toes of the TV show, or release a story it doesn't think should be associated with the show.
No, it means it will be releasing non canon tie in stories until 2020.
We don't know where Mel is from, we never see how she met the Doctor.
We don't know how long they were traveling before Terror of the Vervoids. I guess, thinking back, they did say that Terror of the Vervoids took place in the Doctor's future. So, I guess I have to rearrange my timeline
The Ultimate Foe to Terror of the Vervoids (the events shown in the courtroom obviously, not the courtroom scenes themselves) to Time and the Rani. We have no idea how Mel met The Doctor, and it can't fit anywhere. So, the way I figure it, The Doctor must not have gone directly from the events shown in Mindwarp to the courtroom. He must have had an adventure where he met Mel in between, otherwise nothing makes sense, even though it was clearly supposed to be him going directly from Mindwarp to the courtroom. Then, when he was brought to the courtroom, he forgot the events of both Mindwarp and meeting Mel (we know he forgot Mindwarp), meaning that from his perspective, she was from his "future", even if he'd already met her and just couldn't remember. The writers couldn't fix the meeting Mel thing since Colin was fired before we saw him meeting mel, so the way I've laid out events is the only way I can see it happening, if we just go by on screen, canon sources.
I can point to, for example, several Trek fan films that use the original actors, and that doesn't make them canon with anything.
No, they didn't. They had almost certainly one, I'll give you that, but I can't see him having more than one, and there is no canon story to fit in there.
Apparently all he does is get a stupid blue coat and become the 5th Doctor. He's my favorite Doctor because of the real, in canon stories he was in. Toning him down for the people who were upset that he wasn't Peter Davidson, and that refused to look past his coat, just makes BF jerks. I mean, I guess selling out and ruining the 6th Doctor was the only way to make him more acceptable to the people who hated his era, but as a fan of the real version, its the big reason I've gone from just ignoring and not caring about BF to borderline hating them.
The real sixth doctor is an irritable timelord in a colorful coat who got two seasons worth of adventures. Big Finish's 6th-in-name-only is basically giving a big middle finger to people who like the real 6th Doctor, and I'd probably be more angry if the stories were remotely canon, which they aren't. The original, televised 6th Doctor still the only canon version.
I guess after Ace finally left him after all the mental torture, he probably got lonely. She's just lucky he didn't kill her, which would have been my guess about how their relationship ended if an episode of the SJ Adventures hadn't confirmed Ace being alive and well.
Oh, it was obviously Moffat's intent to reference BF. But, until we see them on screen, all we know from an in universe perspective is that the 8th Doctor knew some people who coincidentally had the same names of a few BF characters.
I don't even know what this means. There is no reason for the names Charley and C'rizz to have any connection outside of Big Finish, or for C'rizz's name to be unique, so it means nothing when it comes to canon. I already said Moffat obviously took the names from BF, we just have no way of knowing, in canon, who the names are attached to and what relationships they had with The Doctor.
Actually the plan for Ace was that she would leave the Doctor in the 27th season to become a Time Lady. Strange thogh how you keep talking about you think Ace was torturedby the Doctor, it was the ninth Doctor who made Amy get medical help for her imaginary friend.
Speaking of canon vs. fanon, I personally feel that the Sisterhood of Karn is a group of lesbian separatists. They let the Doctor in occasionally because he taught them how to fix the furnace once. But otherwise the Doctor feels a little out of place in all of the lesbo orgies and generally stays away.
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