Am I assuming that the writers care so much, because in just 20 years...
8X07 "Kill The Moon" (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)
- Thread starter Green Lantern
- Start date
I think it was an episode of the Simpsons where Lisa (trying to out Bart Bart) stole all the teacher's editions of the school textbooks so that the Teachers would be as ignorant as the Students.
Actually, she shouldn't. The Doctor usually takes charge of everything, he doesn't subsidize the big moral dilemmas to the Companions.
Hmm...it was okay...but not really "quite good".
There were some BIG science errors (to my knowledge...correct me if I´m wrong):
1. you can´t see any stars from the surface of the moon
2. if the moon suddenly vanished we would have bigger problems then just "no more tides"...since if I remember it correctly the moon actually stabilises earth´s orbit.
3. the spiders...they can´t be bacteria AND spiders...a single cell organism just can´t take that form.
4. EVERYBODY on earth voted for killing the thing? Really?
Oh....and PLEASE throw that Courtney out of an airlock or something! She is the first (semi)-companion I can´t stand. She is a total brat! "I´m bored!", "I wanna go home", "I have to post pictures on tumblr in the middle of a crisis"...WTF?
There were some BIG science errors (to my knowledge...correct me if I´m wrong):
1. you can´t see any stars from the surface of the moon
2. if the moon suddenly vanished we would have bigger problems then just "no more tides"...since if I remember it correctly the moon actually stabilises earth´s orbit.
3. the spiders...they can´t be bacteria AND spiders...a single cell organism just can´t take that form.
4. EVERYBODY on earth voted for killing the thing? Really?
Oh....and PLEASE throw that Courtney out of an airlock or something! She is the first (semi)-companion I can´t stand. She is a total brat! "I´m bored!", "I wanna go home", "I have to post pictures on tumblr in the middle of a crisis"...WTF?
I've been reading reviews on the web and several sources raised a point I never considered, that this episode was disguised as a look at pregnancy and abortion.
The egg as a parallel for abortion with Clara and the female astronaut fighting over pros and cons of abortion. The Doctor as the irresponsible father who leaves after doing the deed. Clara being angry at him for leaving her at the time she most needed him to be with her.
The egg as a parallel for abortion with Clara and the female astronaut fighting over pros and cons of abortion. The Doctor as the irresponsible father who leaves after doing the deed. Clara being angry at him for leaving her at the time she most needed him to be with her.
Consider 10's reaction when Harriet Jones made this same decision poorly.
And how much he loved Amy for risking man kind to free the space whale.
The only other point that I can think that he felt impotent when confronted with a choice of one species over another is when the didn't smother Dalekkind in their nursery...
Oh, The Moment.
Murdering the Daleks and the Timelords to save the Universe.
He chose genocide, and then hundreds of years later second guessed himself like a wussy.
And how much he loved Amy for risking man kind to free the space whale.
The only other point that I can think that he felt impotent when confronted with a choice of one species over another is when the didn't smother Dalekkind in their nursery...
Oh, The Moment.
Murdering the Daleks and the Timelords to save the Universe.
He chose genocide, and then hundreds of years later second guessed himself like a wussy.
Wow I never thought of of it like that. I feel gross now. The Doctor abdicating his role as protector of the Earth and all things innocent and leaving it up to Clara, that one astronaut and the people of Earth (who cast votes by switching off their lights which is frakking mental); is frakking insane. If the point was to make an abortion message show, they could have threaded the needle better.
Don't forget the time he killed all those Raxnox babies in their shells in "The Runaway Bride". ABORTION by drowning in the Thames.
I'm surprised more people didn't pick up on the abortion theme; I thought it a bit sledge hammery myself. But if you do see it as a parallel for abortion surely that makes the Doctor's absence even more relevant.
After all surely the one person who should make the decision whether to abort is the mother (humanity), the one person likely to be impacted most by the birth/loss of the child, rather than the very male “Doctor”, an outsider who won’t have to deal with the aftermath of the decision?
He was out of his Gourd that day.
Without Donna's humanity to hold him back, the Time Lord would have drowned.
We know this is true.
There's an urban legend, that I could probably google with ease to see that it is a real thing, but rich white Doctors sterilizing urban drug addicts without permission, or even for a small fee, for the greater good. Stopping the generational cycle of pregnancy and greater degrees of poverty because it's the right thing to do.
I just remembered what those bacteria spiders reminded me of... and I haven't read through the thread to see if it's mentioned before...
That giant germ infestation in Star Trek: Voyager: Macrocosm. Now there's a show that's an exemplar of accurate science in sci-fi!
That giant germ infestation in Star Trek: Voyager: Macrocosm. Now there's a show that's an exemplar of accurate science in sci-fi!
"Disguised"?! What fucking disguise?!
For the people saying just to ignore the bad science:
The problem isn't that the moon is an egg in the story. I think most critics could get behind that just fine with some hand-waving.
But having the moon be an egg, growing a life-form that apparently gains mass from nowhere. That deserves explanation.
Having the moon be an egg with a surface/shell so insubstantial that it dissolves into harmless dust. Deserves some explanation.
That the increase in mass within the moon can cause high tides all around the world but not mess with them when the creature hatches and flies away. That deserves explanation.
That the moon is miraculously replaced a moment later at the "correct" mass for the moon to be. Yeup, that deserves explanation.
Giving the moon an aberrant origin that blatantly contradicts literally everything we know about it? Some clarification would have been nice.
It isn't so much bad science as fantastically bad storytelling. It makes the whole thing feel like it is being made up on the fly and that the universe has no rules and thus no consequences.
TL;DR: humbug.
The problem isn't that the moon is an egg in the story. I think most critics could get behind that just fine with some hand-waving.
But having the moon be an egg, growing a life-form that apparently gains mass from nowhere. That deserves explanation.
Having the moon be an egg with a surface/shell so insubstantial that it dissolves into harmless dust. Deserves some explanation.
That the increase in mass within the moon can cause high tides all around the world but not mess with them when the creature hatches and flies away. That deserves explanation.
That the moon is miraculously replaced a moment later at the "correct" mass for the moon to be. Yeup, that deserves explanation.
Giving the moon an aberrant origin that blatantly contradicts literally everything we know about it? Some clarification would have been nice.
It isn't so much bad science as fantastically bad storytelling. It makes the whole thing feel like it is being made up on the fly and that the universe has no rules and thus no consequences.
TL;DR: humbug.
That episode stunk! For the first time this series I considered just switching off. I know Doctor Who sometimes plays fast and loose with science, but that was too stupid, sorry. I have not felt this disengaged with the show since Martha was there. Just sod off Clara and take Pink with you!!!
Also slightly peeved that the moon egg thing was just maguffin - a fuzzy distant creature in the sky wasn't pay off enough I thought. The new-moon egg was also too much of a cop-out. The school kid I didn't mind, but girlfriend was vocal in her dislike of her, and I can see why.
All in all, a less than average episode, with more boring Clara stuff and not enough care towards the fans (despite all the nods and hoamagery the science was unavoidably dumb). I am nearly at the stage where I am done with nuWho. I really hope it picks up because if the next ep is like this one, I can take it or leave it (and more likely the second).
Also slightly peeved that the moon egg thing was just maguffin - a fuzzy distant creature in the sky wasn't pay off enough I thought. The new-moon egg was also too much of a cop-out. The school kid I didn't mind, but girlfriend was vocal in her dislike of her, and I can see why.
All in all, a less than average episode, with more boring Clara stuff and not enough care towards the fans (despite all the nods and hoamagery the science was unavoidably dumb). I am nearly at the stage where I am done with nuWho. I really hope it picks up because if the next ep is like this one, I can take it or leave it (and more likely the second).
Unless Missy/the Nethersphere is a Land Of Fiction thing, in which case this could all be deliberate.
I agree. The huge science errors were a distraction. You can only accept so many unbelievable things per story and that was far exceeded here!
The whole plan that 100 nukes could blow up such a massive object is also absurd. That they'd fit on the space shuttle. And, even if they could destroy what they still thought was the moon, didn't they consider the falling debris?
I found it impossible to take seriously, which killed the drama. The drama also had absurd moments. I can see the Doctor letting the humans decided but he wouldn't leave like that.
Unless Lonemagpie is correct. Although, that wouldn't save how I perceived the episode during its first run.
Mr Awe
Very much all of this. Additionally, I had a problem with the bad science because the story went in with the basic premise of "What would happen if the Moon suddenly increased in mass? What would be the effects on the Moon and on Earth?" Not only did it not properly answer those questions, it didn't give much explanation for the hows and whys (i.e. where did that mass come from and why now?).
This really is the most controversial episode of the season. Really wondering how things go from here...
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