8X05 "Time Heist" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!

[Ood Sigma]

Great episode! I was surprised I liked it as much as I did. Very gripping and I really love what Peter Capaldi is doing. Gruff without being too much of a jerk (which I was afraid of).

Rankings so far:
1. Deep Breath
2. Time Heist
3. Robot of Sherwood
4. Into the Dalek
5. Listen

 

[Starkers]

I think so far I'd go;

1. Listen
2. Time Heist
3. Into the Dalek
4. Deep Breath
5. Robot of Sherwood

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Also the predestination paradox is a real paradox and I can't see how it resolves itself.

That's not the first time that's happened during Moffat's era. The Doctor's escape from the Pandorica is a prime example; the Doctor's escape from the Pandorica relies upon a Doctor who has been freed from the Pandorica. It's clever and it's witty and it moves so fast you hardly notice, but trying to work out the ontological problems in Moffat's work will make your head hurt.

 

[kirk55555]

I'd probably rate the first five episodes:

1. Deep Breath
2. Time Heist
3. Into the Dalek
4. Robot of Sherwood
5. Listen

 

[Klaus]

I think Captain Janeway's famous advice about temporal paradoxes might as well have been written for Dr. Who.

 

[JoeZhang]

Also the predestination paradox is a real paradox and I can't see how it resolves itself.

That's not the first time that's happened during Moffat's era. The Doctor's escape from the Pandorica is a prime example; the Doctor's escape from the Pandorica relies upon a Doctor who has been freed from the Pandorica. It's clever and it's witty and it moves so fast you hardly notice, but trying to work out the ontological problems in Moffat's work will make your head hurt.

There are lots of them scattered around from big to small - for example, why is little Amelia thirsty?

 

[diankra]

The whole point about a pre-destination paradox is that it doesn't resolve: the past people act on the basis of information from the future, which the future people got from the past, so the information is never actually created, just looped (change information into motivation, parentage, etc)

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm trying to think - the Terminator is maybe the most well-known example in popular culture?

 

[davejames]

That's not the first time that's happened during Moffat's era. The Doctor's escape from the Pandorica is a prime example; the Doctor's escape from the Pandorica relies upon a Doctor who has been freed from the Pandorica. It's clever and it's witty and it moves so fast you hardly notice, but trying to work out the ontological problems in Moffat's work will make your head hurt.

I haven't seen the episode in awhile, but is there anything saying this couldn't have been a past version of Eleven who somehow got word that he would end up in the Pandorica and popped ahead in time to undo the whole thing?

I'm sure every possible explanation was already hashed out on here four years ago, but it's the one that would seem to make the most sense to me. Especially when I believe River did mention the Pandorica as being a future event in her diary.

And even if he did say he had previously escaped, that doesn't mean he wasn't simply lying to make the feat seem even more impressive.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'd got the impression that he recorded the message later; he was as much a 'victim' of the pre-destination paradox his future self set up as the others were (and indeed, the future Doctor is too, he has to record the message to ensure things play out as they did; and I read it as being that if the heist hadn't happened at all he wouldn't have known of the cyborg, the shapeshifter and the creatures' existence and hence wouldn't have set out to arrange a happy ending for them).

So for the Doctor, it's phone call in Clara's flat/briefing/memory wipe/heist/set it all up (before or after taking everyone home is open to question). Otherwise he either set it all up in the middle of the briefing (no? It's only during the actual flares that the TARDIS can't get in, not a bit before, so possible, but I feel no), or he knows about it all in Clara's flat (maybe but don't like it), or he wipes his memories twice (again, maybe, but no)...

It's clear he did it before. He took the call, placed all the suitcases, and recorded the message. That was a montage of events (so they were meant to go together) and it started with receiving the phone call. He wiped his memory because he didn't want the Teller to sense his thoughts and ruin the whole mission.

He was still a victim of a paradox, though, because it was his telling the owner of the bank to call him that set it in motion.

 

[Shawnster]

Yes. Specifically, I'm hating the "You interrupted me, I can't go with you because I'm about to go on a date/expecting a phonecall/whatever" circumstance every week. Doesn't she realize that the TARDIS is a time machine? So what if she's almost out the door or in the middle of her date? She could for all practical purposes be in the middle of her date, excuse herself to use the loo, have to wait in line because someone is already in there ahead of her, get picked up by the Doctor, go on an adventure, be returned to the restaurant a few minutes earlier than when she left, slip into the empty loo, wait until her "past self" leaves with the Doctor, exit the loo and return to her date.

It's a time machine, Claire!

Oh, and in response to last week when everyone was complaining that the Impossible Girl had returned to save the day once again. I had the opposite reaction. I was thinking it only logical the Impossible Girl should return. After all, she was scattered all along the Doctor's timeline. Shouldn't we be seeing some of her now and then for the rest of the Doctor's life?

Overall I've grown disappointed with Claire. They started her out brilliantly. She was Souffle Girl, then Impossible Girl. She seemed smarter than the average contemporaries of her time, especially in the 19th Century with her "It's smaller on the outside" comment, which was totally opposite of the normal reaction (yes, we heard the same comment from the solder in the Dalek episode). But now Claire seems just as average as the rest of the contemporaries.

Not that I'd kick her out of the TARDIS or anything...

 

[davejames]

Time machine or no, I can easily see why it would be annoying to be pulled away from a date with a guy or girl you really like, or to have your heart set on a big night out only to have to put the whole thing on hold for a couple days.

Time may not pass for people Clara leaves behind on Earth, but it does pass for her.

 

[Klaus]

^^Exactly. We know Amy and Rory spent a lot of time outside the TARDIS, we just didn't see it. Personally I like seeing the impact of the Doctor on the other parts of the companions' lives, something nuWho has done right from the start.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

I voted amazing but frankly I nearly upped that to Scottish. I thought it was fun, exciting, and it kept me guessing. It took a while to get going, and there were a lot of jump cuts early on but on the whole really enjoyable. Plus, a clone army of Keely Hawes? Oh my…

I’m amused that people are saying this nothing arc related happened though, given front and centre and in plain sight they showed us people we thought died, only they didn’t, they were just teleported somewhere else

Oh yeah, and my favourite line? "I wanted minimalist but I seem to have gone with magician!"

I also liked "Shut-itty Up Up Up!"..... is this, perhaps, a little humorous nod back to Capaldi's famous line from his Malcolm Tucker days, "F**kity Bye!"?

I know there are some plot holes in this episode (as others have pointed out), but I thought it was a fun and quite enjoyable episode.

 

[davejames]

I love that we're back to a Doctor who's just completely oblivious about women again. As opposed to Eleven who was constantly saying how "hot and sexy" everyone looked (albeit said in a very goofy and innocent way).

The exchange at the beginning when Clara is trying to get him to look at her outfit, and he just goes "Yup, looking" totally cracked me up.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

With the aversion to hugging, our new Doctor makes me think just a bit of the "11th Doctor (Jim Broadbent) from "The Curse of Fatal Death" parody:

"Oh dear!.... Seem to be a bit shy of girls now..... One of the problems with changing personas... so unpredictable!"

 

[doubleohfive]

Meh.

"Don't blink, don't breathe, listen, don't think."

What's next?

Moffat needs to let someone else write for a while.

 

[RoJoHen]

Blink. Keep blinking. Stop blinking, and you're dead.

 

[Skellington]

"Don't blink, don't breathe, listen, don't think."

What's next?

"Don't stop singing."

 

[Nightowl1701]

"Don't blink, don't breathe, listen, don't think."

What's next?

"Don't stop singing."

"Don't stop...believing...hold on to that feelinnnngggg..."