8X02 "Into the Dalek" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

[Starkers]

Clara annoyed me during 7B but I think that was because her character was so variable from week to week. I loved her one episode, found her insufferable the next. I think this was down to the writers not understanding the character at the time because only Moffat really knew. I think from The Name of the Doctor onwards she's been a consistantly good character, and I think these first couple of episodes have shown Jenna is a good actress.

 

[intrinsical]

I just saw Doctor Who Extra for Into The Dalek. Goodness, Capaldi is such a fanboi. He came on set a couple of hours earlier just to watch the filming of Daleks attacking the Aristotle.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Unless I overlooked the post, I'm surprised no one has commented upon the "zinger" the Doctor made concerning medical miniaturization, specifically, the followup, "Great idea for a movie, lousy if you're a proctologist!"

A bit relevant for me since I'm getting my first colonoscopy tomorrow.

whimper...

Sincerely,

Bill

Too much information man! But I hope all goes/went well.

 

[Pindar]

A bit relevant for me since I'm getting my first colonoscopy tomorrow.

whimper...

Sincerely,

Bill

Hope it went well today.

I am getting a cystoscopy next week, not my first sadly, by fuck they hurt afterwards.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Realised I haven't commented on Into The Dalek yet. Interesting episode - not an original bone in its body (it's a knockoff of Dalek, The Invisible Enemy - DW's original Fantastic Voyage knockoff - and bits of the NSA Prisoner Of The Daleks), but was done so well, and was such a necessary *type* of episode to make or break the new Doctor in the viewers' eyes. And Capaldi nailed it, of course.

It had problems (who are the rebels rebelling against? The Daleks? Humans have always been their enemies. WTF did anybody think would happen when you fix a broken Dalek? The "you would be/are a good Dalek" riff repeated from 2005.) but overall was pretty good. Moral dilemmas, snark, Daleks exterminating people, nods to the past, Tyres from Spaced, more snark.

I like this, I like this Doctor - he's more like me than any of them. He's sort of like what Sixie *should* have been like on TV. The only problem I have him is his lasting antipathy towards soldiers on principle, which really seems to be a hangover from Ten. It just doesn't fit the Doc who has such a long history with UNIT, and who was so recently so upset at hearing of the Brig's death in TWORS. Obviously the thing with Danny Pink having been a soldier is meant to give Clara the opposite view, so I guess there'll be a tension about this. Let's hope it brings the Doctor back to his senses on that one.

Speaking of Danny, I was surprised to really like him. I thought the actor did really well with his response to the questions about whether he'd killed any noncombatants. Not so sure about his chemistry with Clara yet. First time I watched it, I hated the way they'd shoehorned his scenes in, but on second viewing I didn't mind.

Anyway, yeah, loved it. Especially SnarkyDoc.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Indeed, the 'hangover from Ten' thing doesn't even really make a lot of sense, when you consider that one of his last actions was to salute the old soldier, Wilf. Then you have him and Martha appearing at a Remembrance Day service at the end of The Family of Blood.

 

[Lonemagpie]

^ Indeed, the 'hangover from Ten' thing doesn't even really make a lot of sense, when you consider that one of his last actions was to salute the old soldier, Wilf. Then you have him and Martha appearing at a Remembrance Day service at the end of The Family of Blood.

Yeah, exactly. It just doesn't fit with his character historically, and I wish they'd fucking give up with it.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ The only thing I can think of is that it's some sort of overcompensation on the Doctor's part for his uncertainty over whether he's a good a man or a good Dalek. He's not sure, so he's going to prove it by overemphasizing his dislike of soldiers and anything remotely Dalek like. That's all I can think of.

Mr Awe

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The Doctor knows now he didn't burn Gallifrey, I wonder if he's focusing on the things he did as a "warrior" instead.

Maybe hating soldiers is a form of self-hatred? Another level of guilt he needs to work out.

 

[R.Data]

I voted good, I liked it but it was not awesome, IMO.

The new Doctor is too "cold", he is almost Vulcan sometimes, he just finds the right way to solve a problem and he doesn't care who gets hurt; I like this kind of characters usually, but it's too strange in the Doctor.

 

[Redfern]

Unless I overlooked the post, I'm surprised no one has commented upon the "zinger" the Doctor made concerning medical miniaturization, specifically, the followup, "Great idea for a movie, lousy if you're a proctologist!"

A bit relevant for me since I'm getting my first colonoscopy tomorrow.

whimper...

Too much information man! But I hope all goes/went well.

Hope it went well today.

I am getting a cystoscopy next week, not my first sadly, by fuck they hurt afterwards.

Had it earlier today and have returned home. Really I recall nothing about the procedure itself. I recall being wheeled into the operating theater and quoting Frankenfurter from Rocky Horror, saying "Come up to the lab and see what's on the slab." They asked me to roll upon my side...and the next thing I remember was a nurse gently waking me in the recovery ward.

I expected my, ahem, "backside" to feel like it it was the victim of "hentacles", but really, it felt far better than it did first thing this morning. No, the worst aspect by far was taking the "Su-Prep" solution last night and its obvious results. The exam was a "breeze"! The surgeon even removed a polyp (thankfully just one) which will be biopsied to ensure it was benign. I figured I'd have a "twinge" in my lower gut, but if I had not been told, I'd have no idea it was even done.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Skellington]

My thoughts on the Doctor's track record when it comes to ruthlessness:

It's not something usually associated with the Doctor, but nor is it exactly alien to his character. He usually leaves bodies wherever he goes, and even in NuWho he has been pretty ruthless if not callous:

If I recall correctly, Nine and Jack basically sent soldiers to their deaths in The Parting Of The Ways by telling them a lie that rubber bullets would be useful against Daleks. Also, Nine was planning to kill pretty much everything in the Solar System to stop the Dalek fleet.

Ten was going to let Caecilius and his family die at the end of The Fires Of Pompeii just because he was in a rotten mood. I think he pretty much encouraged a character in 42 to sacrifice herself, also.

Eleven was a bit of a softie, but he could be a bit underhanded. (Cases in point: that trick he pulled on Older Kazran at the end of A Christmas Carol and the one he pulled on Older Amy at the end of The Girl Who Waited.) Then there's the fact that he didn't seem bothered at all by Rory's death and deletion from time in season five, even though he knew what had happened. Didn't seem to care too much about the fate of the two gangers at the end of the ganger two-parter, either, even though one was a version of himself. Amy and Rory got short shrift from him in that story too.

Anyway, these are mitigating factors. He has it in him, even though it's not something he necessarily likes himself for.

 

[Pindar]

I expected my, ahem, "backside" to feel like it it was the victim of "hentacles", but really, it felt far better than it did first thing this morning. No, the worst aspect by far was taking the "Su-Prep" solution last night and its obvious results.

Bill

Glad it went well, that prep solution is nasty stuff.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

It had problems (who are the rebels rebelling against? The Daleks? Humans have always been their enemies.

I'd say it's pretty much that the Daleks have likely conquered many human planets, maybe even future Earth, in whatever time period this story was meant to be set in. The Daleks way back during "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" called humans not under their control rebels as well:

"Rebels of London, this is your last offer - our final warning. Leave your hiding places. Show yourselves in the open streets. You will be fed and watered. Work is needed from you... but the Daleks offer you life. Rebel against us and the Daleks will destroy London completely. You will all die. The males, the females, the descendants. Rebels of London, come out of your hiding places."

 

[Sindatur]

It had problems (who are the rebels rebelling against? The Daleks? Humans have always been their enemies.

I'd say it's pretty much that the Daleks have likely conquered many human planets, maybe even future Earth, in whatever time period this story was meant to be set in. The Daleks way back during "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" called humans not under their control rebels as well:

"Rebels of London, this is your last offer - our final warning. Leave your hiding places. Show yourselves in the open streets. You will be fed and watered. Work is needed from you... but the Daleks offer you life. Rebel against us and the Daleks will destroy London completely. You will all die. The males, the females, the descendants. Rebels of London, come out of your hiding places."

Yea, Rebels, Resistance or Terrorists are all often interchangeable, depending upon which side you're on, and/or what you impression you want to promote

 

[Klaus]

I think the disliking soldiers thing not fitting with his past is probably the point - Pinky's going to be the way he realizes that he needs to be less *ahem* black-and-white about it. This will be another of the things he needs to rethink as he's settling in to his new self.

 

[Mr Awe]

My guess is that Pinky is going to sacrifice himself at some point, which makes the Doctor rethink his philosophy. Plus, I think Moffat will want to do his own version of Earthshock.

That may also be the point at which Clara leaves in a similar manner as Tegan once did, after seeing too much death and destruction.

If so, the Doctor may return to pick up Blue Journey after he is forced to reconsider.

Mr Awe

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Spoiler: season finale

Judging by some of the filming, Danny is cyberconverted, and Clara does apparentally leave the Doctor perhaps because of this.

Also perhaps it's a bit early to judge Danny/Clara, Mickey and Rory seemed annoying at first but evolved into more interesting and heroic characters.

 

[Australis]

So if Danny is Pinky, does that mean Clara is Perky?

 

[Nightowl1701]

My guess is that Pinky is going to sacrifice himself at some point, which makes the Doctor rethink his philosophy. Plus, I think Moffat will want to do his own version of Earthshock.

That may also be the point at which Clara leaves in a similar manner as Tegan once did, after seeing too much death and destruction.

If so, the Doctor may return to pick up Blue Journey after he is forced to reconsider.

Mr Awe

I'm starting to get the terrible feeling Clara's last words to Twelve are going to be "I should have let you die on Trenzalore."