7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

[JoeZhang]

I got to be honest, I am confused about the Great Intelligence. Just going by material from this season it would seem the Great Intelligence is still alive in 2013, even though here he and his Whisper Men seem to be from 1893. Does the Great Intelligence have time travel capability? I guess he must in order to get to Trenzalore, and all he'd need is to steal a vortex manipulator from a Time Agent who shows up any time between the ninteenth century and today.

I was wondering about this - The GI wants to disrupt the Doctor's time-steam so he travels to Trenzalore to do so but the implication is that he can already travel in time... so it becomes like Baron Münchhausen who's solution to get out of a hole he has fallen in is to go home to get a ladder...

 

[Guy Gardener]

I assumed that from showing how he could be a whisper, and how he said "yes that is how I was long ago" was that this was millions (or even just thousands of... Or hundreds of... Or some point in the 1970s?) of years in the future and that The Immortal Great Intelligence was just really old and been alive all that time losing thousands of battles to the Doctor and it had got him sort of fixated with winning just once.

 

[intrinsical]

I got to be honest, I am confused about the Great Intelligence. Just going by material from this season it would seem the Great Intelligence is still alive in 2013, even though here he and his Whisper Men seem to be from 1893. Does the Great Intelligence have time travel capability? I guess he must in order to get to Trenzalore, and all he'd need is to steal a vortex manipulator from a Time Agent who shows up any time between the ninteenth century and today.

I was wondering about this - The GI wants to disrupt the Doctor's time-steam so he travels to Trenzalore to do so but the implication is that he can already travel in time... so it becomes like Baron Münchhausen who's solution to get out of a hole he has fallen in is to go home to get a ladder...

Just because GI can time travel does not imply it can easily track The Doctor's travels across the entirety of time and space. Its going to be like finding a needle in a constantly tossed haystack.

If GI had access to The Doctor's personal timeline, the job of foiling The Doctor becomes much easier.

 

[Csalem]

Enjoyed the episode. Loved the sequence at the end where the Doctors were running past Clara.

 

[JoeZhang]

I got to be honest, I am confused about the Great Intelligence. Just going by material from this season it would seem the Great Intelligence is still alive in 2013, even though here he and his Whisper Men seem to be from 1893. Does the Great Intelligence have time travel capability? I guess he must in order to get to Trenzalore, and all he'd need is to steal a vortex manipulator from a Time Agent who shows up any time between the ninteenth century and today.

I was wondering about this - The GI wants to disrupt the Doctor's time-steam so he travels to Trenzalore to do so but the implication is that he can already travel in time... so it becomes like Baron Münchhausen who's solution to get out of a hole he has fallen in is to go home to get a ladder...

Just because GI can time travel does not imply it can easily track The Doctor's travels across the entirety of time and space. Its going to be like finding a needle in a constantly tossed haystack.

Except for the fact that GI explicit states that he knows about future incarnations so why is tracking past ones any harder? Especially as he even mentions adventures that the Doctor has had in the past that occurred on a space ship with three other people.

 

[DalekJim]

What is this conversation even about? The Great Intelligence is clearly immortal.

 

[JoeZhang]

What is this conversation even about? The Great Intelligence is clearly immortal.

Right but how does he get the Doctor's friends from 1893 to Trenzalore? - now it could be that when the Doctor refers to it being "far in the future" (or similar I forget the actual line) he means his own personal time line and his tomb is actually there in 1893 - but if that is the case how is the GI still around in 2013 when he dies in 1893 when he enters the Doctor's web?*


* I guess the out is the version the second Doctor faces and we see in 2013 is one of the echos from the web.

 

[Classic Fan]

I've been away from the bbs for far too long. Lol.

But...



Welcome back Moffat.

Seriously thrilling stuff.

This will be known as the day Doctor Who went all Forest Gump.

The opening few minutes will stay with me forever, just so well done and edited, and coloured etc all perfectly. Just loved it.

Love how the body doubles ran past Clara, looking so identical and even having the same feel.

And we all knew the doctor could hear River all along didnt we.

Honestly, great finale.

Interesting to see where the docors forgotten self story goes for the 50th.



Also, did anybody else notice Murray Golds 'This is Gallifrey' playing as Clara told the doctor about the meeting of river and trenzalore? Great to hear it again.

 

[Kaziarl]

So, all this discussion about Doctor Hurt, but I have a question about Clara. The two parts where it shows her falling through the Doctor's time stream showed that not only was she copied to each era she showed up in, but that she was actually born, raised, and lived there. This makes me wonder about the Clara that appeared on Gallifrey. Was that version of her a Time Lord? Could that be why the many faces of the Doctor didn't phase her like it has other companions? Some sort of wibbley wobbley timey wimey connection to the Timelord version of herself?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

This makes me wonder about the Clara that appeared on Gallifrey. Was that version of her a Time Lord? Could that be why the many faces of the Doctor didn't phase her like it has other companions? Some sort of wibbley wobbley timey wimey connection to the Timelord version of herself?

It makes as much sense as these things do, but I don't think we'll ever find out.

 

[lennier1]

This makes me wonder about the Clara that appeared on Gallifrey. Was that version of her a Time Lord? Could that be why the many faces of the Doctor didn't phase her like it has other companions? Some sort of wibbley wobbley timey wimey connection to the Timelord version of herself?

Unknown Time Lord, future Susan, Ronald McDonald, ... We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Gov Kodos]

This makes me wonder about the Clara that appeared on Gallifrey. Was that version of her a Time Lord? Could that be why the many faces of the Doctor didn't phase her like it has other companions? Some sort of wibbley wobbley timey wimey connection to the Timelord version of herself?

Unknown Time Lord, future Susan, Ronald McDonald, ... We'll just have to wait and see.

She's the Rani.

 

[Saul]

So we're NOT told the name of the Doctor.... and here I was avoiding websites because I thought some places would be telling us the actual name of the Doctor. Heh!

I think Hurt is the pre9th Doctor. I think this because Clara reads a Book on the Time War and says "so that's Who". Seems like some bread crumbs left there leading to the anniversary. We still don't know his name, we don't know why he was running.

I''m also confused if this is the silence that was being talked about? The fall of the Eleventh seems to be a different event to the fields of trenzalore and maybe 'The Silence' refers to the event where the Doctor actually dies as the point when silence falls, not the crossing time stream incident that we saw here.

Now it seems too that this was dead River we saw and I'm still wondering how she knows the Doctor's name and all his faces. But NOW Clara knows so it seems they are connected...

and why did the Tardis blow up in series 5?

F**k me this is all confusing and hard to keep track of. Can we get some solid answers here?

As for the episode it was fantastic (Merlin). If that had been Eccleston at the end I would have screamed. As it was though I loved it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When they first/last met in the library:

COMPUTER: Autodestuct in one minute.
RIVER: You wouldn't tell me why, but I suppose you knew it was time. My time. Time to come to the library. You even gave me your screwdriver. That should have been a clue.
(The two screwdrivers and her diary are just out of the Doctor's reach.)
RIVER: There's nothing you can do.
DOCTOR: You can let me do this.
RIVER: If you die here, it'll mean I've never met you.
DOCTOR: Time can be rewritten.
RIVER: Not those times. Not one line. Don't you dare. It's okay. It's okay. It's not over for you. You'll see me again. You've got all of that to come. You and me, time and space. You watch us run.
DOCTOR: River, you know my name.
COMPUTER: Autodestruct in ten
DOCTOR: You whispered my name in my ear.
COMPUTER: Nine, eight, seven
DOCTOR: There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could.
RIVER: Hush, now.
COMPUTER Four, three
RIVER: Spoilers.
COMPUTER: Two, one
(River joins two power cables together, and there is a blinding light.)

 

[Shazam!]

This bit...

DOCTOR: There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could.

...implies to me that River found out when/where/how she died and The Doctor told her his name because he knew she could open the tomb, jump into his timestream and save herself.

...

 

[Shazam!]

I''m also confused if this is the silence that was being talked about? The fall of the Eleventh seems to be a different event to the fields of trenzalore and maybe 'The Silence' refers to the event where the Doctor actually dies as the point when silence falls, not the crossing time stream incident that we saw here.

The fall of the 11th was the TARDIS falling out of the sky over Trenzelore.

"Do we jump?"

"No... we fall"

 

[Saul]

Dorian: It's all still waiting for you: the fields of Trenzalore, the fall of the Eleventh, and the question!

The Tardis falling doesn't really seem like a note worthy moment in his History though does it? I think it refers to future (in this case past) events when the Doctor will be on Trenzalore in his future and fall in battle.

I mean they don't talk about the 'crash of the 11th' from the beginning of the "Eleventh Hour" do they? I can't imagine the Tardis falling like that was what got Dorian so excited.

 

[Starkers]

The trouble is that if the Fall of the 11th refers to him dying at Trenzalore, then that also suggests there's going to be no 12th Doctor!!!

 

[RoJoHen]

Too many posts to read through. All I have to say is that I'm glad I waited to watch this until right now. Helluva way to start my Monday!

 

[Australis]

That was pretty amazing, and a relief after some of the previous episodes this season.

I'm not going to speculate on Hurt, way too many possibilities.

Much too much to read here. But wow.