7X12 Nightmare in Silver(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS)

[Sindatur]

Interesting. For what it's worth, having her die twice is more dramatic than just once. Otherwise, she could have just died at the end of her time with the Doctor rather than living separate lives.

I wonder if it was the Victorian kids who were supposed to be in the episode.

Yea, someone posted earlier in the thread (or maybe a different thread?) that it was indeed originally Victorian Clara's charges.

Also, apparently the script was originally much closer to the Audio Drama Spare Parts (Not sure if this part was confirmed or assumed)

 

[marillion]

I might have missed it since the episode wasn't interesting to me but is it explained how the Cybermen were able to upgrade to the super speedy type?

Basically, after thousands of years fighting humans (and their improving technology), they upgraded their technology. These Cybermen are much superior to those of old. That's basically it.

I'm guessing when the cybermites accessed the girl's phone, it gave them 4G technology for super speedy upgrades.. There MUST be an app for that!

 

[Pindar]

Interesting. For what it's worth, having her die twice is more dramatic than just once. Otherwise, she could have just died at the end of her time with the Doctor rather than living separate lives.

I wonder if it was the Victorian kids who were supposed to be in the episode.

Yea, someone posted earlier in the thread (or maybe a different thread?) that it was indeed originally Victorian Clara's charges.

Also, apparently the script was originally much closer to the Audio Drama Spare Parts (Not sure if this part was confirmed or assumed)

Spare Parts really needs to get made into a 2 parter.

 

[Sindatur]

Interesting. For what it's worth, having her die twice is more dramatic than just once. Otherwise, she could have just died at the end of her time with the Doctor rather than living separate lives.

I wonder if it was the Victorian kids who were supposed to be in the episode.

Yea, someone posted earlier in the thread (or maybe a different thread?) that it was indeed originally Victorian Clara's charges.

Also, apparently the script was originally much closer to the Audio Drama Spare Parts (Not sure if this part was confirmed or assumed)

Spare Parts really needs to get made into a 2 parter.

I'd definitely be up for that. And leave in the "Cloth Faced' Cybermen, it adds to the atmosphere of it. Changing them to a newer look Cybermen would be a step down in the creepiness of it, IMHO. (Of course, the "cloth Faced" look could be updated, but, still needs to maintain the spirit of the Originals)

 

[Pindar]

Yea, someone posted earlier in the thread (or maybe a different thread?) that it was indeed originally Victorian Clara's charges.

Also, apparently the script was originally much closer to the Audio Drama Spare Parts (Not sure if this part was confirmed or assumed)

Spare Parts really needs to get made into a 2 parter.

I'd definitely be up for that. And leave in the "Cloth Faced' Cybermen, it adds to the atmosphere of it. Changing them to a newer look Cybermen would be a step down in the creepiness of it, IMHO. (Of course, the "cloth Faced" look could be updated, but, still needs to maintain the spirit of the Originals)

The cloth faced ones are very creepy.

 

[Lt. Uhura-Brown]

Leather would be creepier.

 

[The Wormhole]

This is interesting -- Neil Gaiman's first draft used the Victorian Clara as she, not "modern" Clara, was intended to be the Doctor's companion.

Yea, originally Jenna Louise Coleman started in The Snowmen, and then they decided to write her into Asylum of the Daleks and had to do some rewrites to The Snowmen. So, I imagine, the inclusion of Oswin in Asylum of the Daleks, led to having her die again in The Snowmen, which prompted a rewrite to update Clara to modern Clara in Nightmare in Silver.

Yeah, that's how I interepret it. It was stated back when Asylum aired that Oswin was originally meant to be a seperate, unrelated character until JLC was cast as Clara, then she became Oswin as well. The Moffat had to re-write The Snowmen.

I imagine The Bells of St. John would still have involved Clara being attacked by Spoonheads and magically getting computer knowledge. Having her be Victorian probably would have helped that story, as it would explain why she had next to no computer knowledge at the start and it would actually make the fact she suddenly made a joke about Twitter actually be something worth mentioning.

Of course, then the problem becomes why are the Victorian children going on a TARDIS trip? They couldn't go on the internet and find pictures of Clara in a haunted house in the 1970s or on a Soviet submarine in the 1980s.

 

[Lt. Uhura-Brown]

Having her be Victorian probably would have helped that story, as it would explain why she had next to no computer knowledge at the start and it would actually make the fact she suddenly made a joke about Twitter actually be something worth mentioning.

I never thought about that.

I'd expect any 20-something from a Western nation to have at least heard about Twitter, regardless of whether they'd ever even used it themselves.

"You just made a joke about Twitter" only really makes sense if the person had never even HEARD about it before then.

 

[Starkers]

This is interesting -- Neil Gaiman's first draft used the Victorian Clara as she, not "modern" Clara, was intended to be the Doctor's companion.

Yea, originally Jenna Louise Coleman started in The Snowmen, and then they decided to write her into Asylum of the Daleks and had to do some rewrites to The Snowmen. So, I imagine, the inclusion of Oswin in Asylum of the Daleks, led to having her die again in The Snowmen, which prompted a rewrite to update Clara to modern Clara in Nightmare in Silver.

Yeah, that's how I interepret it. It was stated back when Asylum aired that Oswin was originally meant to be a seperate, unrelated character until JLC was cast as Clara, then she became Oswin as well. The Moffat had to re-write The Snowmen.

I imagine The Bells of St. John would still have involved Clara being attacked by Spoonheads and magically getting computer knowledge. Having her be Victorian probably would have helped that story, as it would explain why she had next to no computer knowledge at the start and it would actually make the fact she suddenly made a joke about Twitter actually be something worth mentioning.

Of course, then the problem becomes why are the Victorian children going on a TARDIS trip? They couldn't go on the internet and find pictures of Clara in a haunted house in the 1970s or on a Soviet submarine in the 1980s.

Easy to solve, you just do it the old fashioned way. The Doctor takes Clara back to visit and when the Tardis leaves the kids have snuck onboard. They wouldn't be the first...

 

[I am not Spock]

I miss Amy. The quality of the second half of the season has fluctuated alarmingly. This one was pretty flat, for Neil Gaiman. I do like Clara, but they're not doing nearly enough with her. Next week should have been a two parter, and they should have spent more time on the 'who is she?' arc

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^^ What I do like now is that it really feels like the Doctor is in charge. Sometimes with Amy, Rory and River it felt like he was put upon.

 

[publiusr]

It was okay. Entertaining, but not awesome. Again, this episode was overhyped, being the season's Neil Gaiman episode and introducing the "new" Cybermen. Despite all the hype about the Cybermen getting a new redesign and being "totally reinvented" they're not really much different. Sure they have a new Iron Man-esque look, can move at really fast speeds and can pull off various limbs for fancy tricks. But really, that's what they are, same old Cybermen with a few new tricks.

I like to describe them as the Earth II cybermen joining with the classic ones from Mondas.