7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Ghost Bones]

At least the jingoism has its heart in a better place than Freedom Fries which was just a vindictive take that at the French for not backing the invasion as we wanted.

Americans should just start calling them "chips" then, like us British who did back it.

Those of us from New York prefer the authenticity, regardless of how much of it could have been faked in the UK. Did you not see the special that came before the show? DW filmed here and the sets got mobbed by american fans. That alone is worth the price of plane tickets and cargo charges, AFAIC.

You're not paying for it though are you, the license fee payer is.

Perhaps you should take it up with the BBC then. They think its a good expenditure of the money. Considering it raises the awareness of their franchise.

Doesn't the BBC get a cut of DVD sales of Doctor Who? Perhaps it's a wise investment of the license fee.

But the BBC should be making programmes aimed at the audience who pays for it, not for potential audiences elsewhere who don't fund it. If they could have saved money by not going on this vanity trip to New York and achieved the same result then that's what should have been done.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Americans should just start calling them "chips" then, like us British who did back it.

Yeah, but then we'd have to call our chips crisps and we're just too lazy.


BTW, I think only politicians and political pundits ever called them Freedom Fries, not your average American Joe.

 

[RoJoHen]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure regular American citizens just called them Freedom Fries to mock the term "Freedom Fries." Nobody ever actually called them that for real.

 

[Skywalker]

Renaming everyday food items is a time-honored tradition in this country. Anyone want some liberty cabbage?

 

[doubleohfive]

You're not wrong. French toast was originally "German Toast" before the war.

 

[propita]

EDIT: Just checked in from the other thread. Apparently, that's the new Freedom Tower under construction where the WTC was.

I thought it was easily to spot. I visited it over the summer and the half completed glass on one side has become a trademark of it

I have pics of it from the 9/11 Memorial from our visit this past Spring. A couple of shots have the single tree that survived the day and was babied into staying alive. When we were there, it was the only tree in leaf.

 

[Plain Simple]

Hey, they could meet Jack!

That might be enough for Rory's insecureness to flare up again.

Or Amy's

I don't know if this is legit. It reads oddly as if it's fan-made with all the continuity porn included. Still, it's nicely done:

Not sure what you mean by legit (written by Moffat? somehow I don't think so), but it is good fun.

 

[Starkers]

At least the jingoism has its heart in a better place than Freedom Fries which was just a vindictive take that at the French for not backing the invasion as we wanted.

Americans should just start calling them "chips" then, like us British who did back it.

You're not paying for it though are you, the license fee payer is.

Perhaps you should take it up with the BBC then. They think its a good expenditure of the money. Considering it raises the awareness of their franchise.

Doesn't the BBC get a cut of DVD sales of Doctor Who? Perhaps it's a wise investment of the license fee.

But the BBC should be making programmes aimed at the audience who pays for it, not for potential audiences elsewhere who don't fund it. If they could have saved money by not going on this vanity trip to New York and achieved the same result then that's what should have been done.

But this is something Who's done for many years. City of Death, Arc of Infinity, The Two Doctors, and let's remember the Two Doctors originally was going to be filmed in New Orleans, which given the show didn't have the kind of traction in the US it has now would have made that even more of a 'vanity trip' than this.

The BBC makes a lot of money from abroad, not only with Who but with Top Gear and Strictly amongst others, so I don't think it's a huge waste of money to film aborad on occasion, plus I don't think there was actually that much filming in New York, it seemed pretty small scale compared to something like Planet of the Dead in Dubai, which must have been huge by comparison.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to see them film every episode abroad, I don't relish the idea of Who being Americanised, and the notion bandied about about New Zealand would be several steps too far for me, but I don't see it as a huge problem if it occasionally gives the show a boost aborad and provides a different look (which benefits us as well). Or they could hand back every cent anyone who isn't British spends on Who merchendise, and just keep using the Cardiff peace temple or whatever its called,and Bad Wolf bay (how many times have we seen each of those now, four/five/more?)

 

[Pindar]

According to the latest Blogtor Who podcast one of the production team said it's cheaper to go to America and film there that it is to recreate it in Cardiff.

Anyway I don't care what is cost, it looks much better when they go to an actual foreign location rather than trying to cheat it back here.

 

[doubleohfive]

Not sure what you mean by legit (written by Moffat? somehow I don't think so), but it is good fun.

By "legit," I mean as in official. I found it on Buzzfeed, but it is so damn fan-wanky that it could easily just be something some fan with photoshop skills and a decent attention span put together.

 

[Mitty]

I've watched it multiple times now. The first half is a tad annoying and doesn't make that much sense, and the Statue of Liberty Angel is completely ridiculous. Given the "rules" of the Weeping Angels, I don't think it's possible in New York City, even an earlier New York City in the 1940's or whenever this was, that there is a time where absolutely nobody is looking at the thing. The Rule is, if someone is looking at it then it can't move. And here we have it next to a building while cars drive by on the other side of the building, blissfully unaware what's going on. Surely someone saw it walking across the River to get there, and if they did then it couldn't have done it.

Yes, it's funny but it makes zero sense.

Having said all that, From the bit where Rory says he has to jump and then Amy joining him, that for me is one of the most powerful scenes ever in Doctor Who. I didn't think they were going to die from the fall (and I was right) but Amy's speech about "it's together, or not at all" really hit home with me for some reason.

The bit after that in the grave yard felt a bit rushed up until Amy decided to let the Angel take her as well, but her acting and Matt Smith's acting were amazing. Matt Smith does sad upset distraught Doctor really well.

And Amelias Afterword... that gave me shivers. I would have actually been impressed if they'd had a scene in the can shot back when The Eleventh Hour was made of The Doctor coming back to young Amy, but I guess in Retrospect it would have taken away from that final scene a little bit. And they couldn't film it now because the girl who plays little Amy has probably grown quite a bit since then, she was even obviously older in her Scenes in "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The God Complex".

 

[Mr Light]

The Statue of Liberty thing was a cool teaser image but it makes no sense within the reality of the episode...

 

[Starkers]

^Yeah, and I adore the episode but it really was silly!

 

[Mr Awe]

Yeah, it'd be one thing if they were full of crazy Angel temporal energy that prevented them from time-traveling ever again, therefore getting stuck in the past for the rest of their lives. But the idea that the Doctor can't ever SEE them again just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's possible that the Doctor feels that if he DOES see them again, the temptation would be too great to try to rescue them. Which is why he doesn't want to take the chance.

It's simple, he just plants the tombstone and off they go!

Mr Awe

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Unless you're wrong, in which case you've just altered a fixed point in time.

 

[Starkers]

But you could say the same of myriad situations throughout Who.

Why didn't he save Adric? Not like the mass of one boy was going to be the deciding factor between the dinosaurs being wiped out at surviving? Hell he could rescue Adric then drop him off again as an old man to be blown up.

Why didn't he rescue Peri?

Reinette? Well he could just pop back and see her, as for the letter, heck I can envisage an amusing scene where the 11th doctor stands behind her dictating bits of it.

I think the Doctor just knows sometimes, knows when things are at an end, when he can't interfere, and as someone else said, both the Ponds and the Doctor knew time was up, they just needed an excuse.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I think the Doctor just knows sometimes, knows when things are at an end, when he can't interfere, and as someone else said, both the Ponds and the Doctor knew time was up, they just needed an excuse.

I said that on page 15, long before it was cool!

 

[Starkers]

I think the Doctor just knows sometimes, knows when things are at an end, when he can't interfere, and as someone else said, both the Ponds and the Doctor knew time was up, they just needed an excuse.

I said that on page 15, long before it was cool!

Sorry I did mean to put 'as someone suggested earlier'

 

[Dac]

About the shooting in New York thing? I'm a Brit, a License Fee payer, but I'm not bitter about that. I just really don't think the spectacle that New York should have came across in the episode. The shot where Amy and The Doctor walk through Time Square looked composited too me. And while there were people when Rory was "getting" the coffee, Central Park seemed devoid of live for the most part, especially when we only see the same 3 extras in the background for most of the Doc/Rory/Amy shots. Considering what they got seemed awfully underwhelming to me, I just felt like it may as well have been shot in the UK for presumably less expense.

EDIT:

I mean, look at this shot from the End of Captain America.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X2-VaFMk9-M[/yt]

In 20 seconds, they've established that it's New York, it looks like New York and feels like New York. 20 seconds. Now sure, Captain America is a big budget movie, but Doctor Who is now a high production value show, especially this year when Matt Smith and Moffat made a big deal about each episode being a mini movie. All that makes the Cap shot work is the camerawork. Low angle, show off the city and the fact its a sprawling metropolis. Something like that would have sold the whole "Rory is lost and the Doc and Amy go looking for him to no avail" bit far better than the flat "run across a street, magically end up at the Tardis miles away" shot/cut we got.

 

[Photoman15]

Well that's probably because of crowd control. There were a thousand fans that ran to CP when they found out they were filming there. Had there not, you may have got real background people,.