7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Worf2DS9]

I wonder if theywill properly kill off a companion again. This episode really made me appreciate Karen Gilian and Arthur Darvill. It certainly beat the departure of Billie Piper.

I actually liked the tragedy & finality of Rose's departure in "Doomsday". The problem was bringing her back when it was supposed to be impossible, then making her happy by giving her a human Doctor to play with.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

And I wonder about the earlier statement of what a small audience the American Audience is? Doesn't the UK score about 8Million an episode and BBCA gets about 6Million?

BBC America gets closer to 1.5 million viewers per episode. "Asylum of the Daleks" had 1.6 million viewers.

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't have any idea what effect this has on the numbers, but it might also be worth mentioning that not everybody in the US even gets BBC America. My cable provider doesn't carry it, so I've had to resort to other means of watching Doctor Who (the last couple years I waited for it to show up on Netflix; this season I subscribed to the season on iTunes).

 

[Sindatur]

And I wonder about the earlier statement of what a small audience the American Audience is? Doesn't the UK score about 8Million an episode and BBCA gets about 6Million?

BBC America gets closer to 1.5 million viewers per episode. "Asylum of the Daleks" had 1.6 million viewers.

Oh, OK, I thought it was around 6 Million, which I was thinking was actually incredible considering it's on a high tier of service, rather than on Basic Cable.

So, then...Nevermind

 

[Mr Awe]

I'm not sure that I buy that they were all looking for a way out. But, for the sake of argument, let's say they were. All that means then is that there's no need to rescue them until there's an overriding reason, say the 50th Anniversary!

We already know that they're visited at least one more time and more likely two (one for River to tell Amy to write the last page, and one in which to retrieve the book to slip it into the Doctor's coat).

Also, if they were all looking for a way out, I'm sure there'd be something better than dumping them in the past, separated from friends and family.

It obviously wasn't a plan, but the situation worked out. And, again, why risk destroying the world just to screw up their happy little lives when they are, you know, happy where they are. Especially since we know they can still be visited from time to time.

I guess it just doesn't seem as dangerous as you state because River can just pop in. Why would it be OK for her but not the Doctor. Doesn't really make sense.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

They must have been sent to the 1890s.

Rory's part of the tombstone didn't change from the beginning of the episode to the end. Thus, he had always died in 1938 and eliminating the Angel Farm didn't change that. If he was 82 in 1938 and he was in his mid- to late-thirties in present, then working back forty-five years, give or take five on either side, he'd have landed in 1893.

Nah, I'm pretty sure the indication was that they were sent back to the same time, 1938. So, he reached the age of 82 from there. Assuming he was 35ish (not really sure), that's 1938+47= Rory dying in 1985.

Mr Awe

 

[Kanenas]

What a pile of shite.

You'd think that just this once Moffat would want to go for substance over style but instead with get his usual pile of crap that makes no sense once you apply two seconds of thought to it.

So you can't go back to New York in 1938? Go to London and send them some plane tickets.

So the Doctor can just dish out regeneration energy to heal people whenever he likes? Aren't there a couple of thousand times in the past fifty years of stories when that might have come in handy?

And I'm not even going to touch the stealth capabilities of the Statue Of Liberty.

Thank you for expressing the frustration for the absurd aversion to happy endings. I would have like for Amy to be repaired by the sisters of mercy hospital and she and rory lived out a GOOD life as Mr. and Mrs. Williams with a bundle of little Williamses. (with that really cool red jag)

Instead it is just another ...what you said.

 

[doubleohfive]

I don't know if this is legit. It reads oddly as if it's fan-made with all the continuity porn included. Still, it's nicely done:

 

[Starkers]

Having watched it again, can I point out that the "Can't go to New York again it'll blow up" issue is not referenced as a reason for not seeing Rory and Amy, he just says he can't go to NY in 1938 again that's all. His reasoning for not seeing Rory and Amy is different (it may or may not make sense, but it is different, at least as far as I can see.)

Oh yeah, and second time around I still loved it.

 

[davejames]

Yeah, it'd be one thing if they were full of crazy Angel temporal energy that prevented them from time-traveling ever again, therefore getting stuck in the past for the rest of their lives. But the idea that the Doctor can't ever SEE them again just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's possible that the Doctor feels that if he DOES see them again, the temptation would be too great to try to rescue them. Which is why he doesn't want to take the chance.

 

[Ghost Bones]

I would love to visit New York, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't see enough of it on screen to warrant filming there. And the shots of Central Park did look devoid of life.

Watching the opening again, I'd say theres at most 5 shots which NEEDED to be filmed in New York, and any of the rest could easily have been faked in post, and to be honest probably were.

Doctor Who isn't set in New York every week though, and won't be again thanks to that little line of dialogue about if he went back in the Tardis it'll be blown up. Soo...what was the point? 5 shots of Rory holding coffee walking through a park? Theres a few in London that could easily have doubled for those. I just don't see the money on screen like I'd expect an episode filmed in New York would look like.

Those of us from New York prefer the authenticity, regardless of how much of it could have been faked in the UK. Did you not see the special that came before the show? DW filmed here and the sets got mobbed by american fans. That alone is worth the price of plane tickets and cargo charges, AFAIC.

You're not paying for it though are you, the license fee payer is.

 

[Sindatur]

I would love to visit New York, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't see enough of it on screen to warrant filming there. And the shots of Central Park did look devoid of life.

Watching the opening again, I'd say theres at most 5 shots which NEEDED to be filmed in New York, and any of the rest could easily have been faked in post, and to be honest probably were.

Doctor Who isn't set in New York every week though, and won't be again thanks to that little line of dialogue about if he went back in the Tardis it'll be blown up. Soo...what was the point? 5 shots of Rory holding coffee walking through a park? Theres a few in London that could easily have doubled for those. I just don't see the money on screen like I'd expect an episode filmed in New York would look like.

Those of us from New York prefer the authenticity, regardless of how much of it could have been faked in the UK. Did you not see the special that came before the show? DW filmed here and the sets got mobbed by american fans. That alone is worth the price of plane tickets and cargo charges, AFAIC.

You're not paying for it though are you, the license fee payer is.

Actually, if I recall correctly, BBCA is picking up about 50% to most of the budget for the "American" episodes, so, even if you're not getting the episode for free, you're getting a higher budget episode for less, I think

Of course, one could still argue they would've preferred an episode with smaller budget that they paid a higher percentage of in order to keep it on your home soil with CGI.

I wonder if they could do the CGI Central Park Icons + all the Weeping Angels on a budget 100% homegrown?

 

[Ghost Bones]

Where's the souce for that?

 

[Sindatur]

Where's the souce for that?

BBCA Funding is an assumption, based upon S6, I am not stating it as fact, I am stating it as a question, if it still holds up in S7? Does it? Or did Moffat fund this one by himself, in addition to the Spain Location shooting for A Town Called Mercy? If Moffat's taken all this onto his own budget, I'm rather impressed with how he's stretched the Dollar, as I'm sure DoaS was CGI expensive, in addition to Location shooting in Spain and America, plus all the Daleks in the first episode. Matter of fact, the only episode, I think wouldn't be budget breaking (Unless you have Budget light episodes to steal from) is The Power of 3, as the Cubes were all so similar, they probably were cheaper in volume then they look.

Some may not like the Episodes that were Produced, but, I think they had a High quality of stretching the Budget

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Doesn't mention the percentage but it does talk about co-producing the series 6 episodes (also Primeval and Being Human).

http://press.bbcamerica.com/press-release.jsp?id=22529

 

[STR]

^I thought it was called Freedom Tower as well

They stopped calling it that when NY Gov. Pataki left office. That was his name, and it was steeped in the same kind of half-baked jingoism that brought the world "freedom fries". The building is 1 World Trade Center, as opposed to the complete 7 World Trade and also-under-construction 4 World Trade Center (2 & 3 are stalled due to economy, 5 is in the early planning stages, there is no 6).

And this episode was really awful. Seems they were just itching to get rid of A&R so they could get started on the "real" episodes. They spent the whole episodes talking about plot devices, rather than using said devices to tie up character or story arcs. The plot devices don't even gel with previous appearances of the same plot device, I know this show isn't about 100% continuity (it's part of the fun), but I expect things to be self-adhering in the same episode. Meh. Just...lots of wasted time and potential.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

At least the jingoism has its heart in a better place than Freedom Fries which was just a vindictive take that at the French for not backing the invasion as we wanted.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Did Freedom Fries ever take?

Not really. It was more a punchline for stupid congress than anything else.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I would love to visit New York, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't see enough of it on screen to warrant filming there. And the shots of Central Park did look devoid of life.

Watching the opening again, I'd say theres at most 5 shots which NEEDED to be filmed in New York, and any of the rest could easily have been faked in post, and to be honest probably were.

Doctor Who isn't set in New York every week though, and won't be again thanks to that little line of dialogue about if he went back in the Tardis it'll be blown up. Soo...what was the point? 5 shots of Rory holding coffee walking through a park? Theres a few in London that could easily have doubled for those. I just don't see the money on screen like I'd expect an episode filmed in New York would look like.

Those of us from New York prefer the authenticity, regardless of how much of it could have been faked in the UK. Did you not see the special that came before the show? DW filmed here and the sets got mobbed by american fans. That alone is worth the price of plane tickets and cargo charges, AFAIC.

You're not paying for it though are you, the license fee payer is.

Perhaps you should take it up with the BBC then. They think its a good expenditure of the money. Considering it raises the awareness of their franchise.

Doesn't the BBC get a cut of DVD sales of Doctor Who? Perhaps it's a wise investment of the license fee.

 

[Samurai8472]

EDIT: Just checked in from the other thread. Apparently, that's the new Freedom Tower under construction where the WTC was.

I thought it was easily to spot. I visited it over the summer and the half completed glass on one side has become a trademark of it