5x07 Amy's Choice (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[cultcross]

Thought this episode was good, teetering on the borders of great, but never quite making it over. I think that the core mystery was somewhat damaged by the fact that we all knew which world was real to begin with (oh come on, we did, didn't we?) and the episode thus offered little surprise in its resolution. Perhaps a second world that might have been real would have been more dramatic?
But despite that, the character stuff was lovely - something of a redemption into the 'good' books for Amy's character after her bizarre coming on to the Doctor two weeks ago. I'm still not overly fond of Rory as a character, I hope he's not a permanent feature. The revealing of the villain was clever, I liked that - and it gave particular weight to the things he said in the camper van about abandoning his companions when the grow up, that Peter Pan was only interested in hanging out with the young.

When Steven Moffat doesn't write him, Matt Smith's Doctor loses some of his 'punch', I feel. The character is still good, but he doesn't quite turn it up to 11 unless Moffat is writing the dialogue, imho.

 

[Guy Gardener]

this all happened in the comics already.

The big bad is revealed to be 10b from the Mirror universe, who then declares that he is ALSO the Valeyard!

10 looks him squarely in his seemingly twinned weedy little eyes and announces words to these effect: "No, no Noooooooo. Noooooooooooooooooooooo. No. I don't think so. No, no, no. I really don't think so. You have to be around the bend if you think I would fall for that. Something else is going on here and I mean to find out what it is."

Who said that the Valeyard is evil? If the Master is still trying to kill him, then he can't be completely rotten. It's not like the Valeyard is really killing the real Doctor if he is the Doctor, Since whatever life the REAL Doctor would have lead that the Valeyard is eating would have already been lived through him already and so therefore had been a life lived and not a life to be murdered. It was selfish of 6 to repeat the unnecessary years all over again which were a foregone conclusion when the life, also his own life too, ahead of the Valeyards hypothetical extended lifespan would have received 7 extra lives without forfeiting any of his lives 6 thought he was losing because of the paradox entwined in crossing their timelines that 6 could easily be less real than the Valeyard.

Of course that is me thinking that that they are integrating when it's probably more like that rig from the movie which just drained life force and left a husk behind on one end of the transfer terminals, but the Valeyards life would have been identical up tot the point he met the doctor surely, and after they met still terribly terribly similar, although less so as time marched.

 

[Mitty]

Loved it. Seeing Rory die like that was very sad, even though it obviously wasn't true.

 

[Bones2]

lets hope this episode has some good writing, as I think its going to a cheap one, CGI wise, dont even know if its going to have any proper aliens.

Give me plenty more like this, rather than the pathetic vampires one, ANY day.

You DO know that a good story can be something mind-bending, rather than new "rubber head of the week" thing, right?

How old are you any way?!?

I'd hate to reduce myself to the level of some of the more snide characters here who'd quote something like this and just add a laughing emoticon, but that did make me smile.

On the subject of the Valeyard, I've got ideas for the character that I think are better than anything anyone else has come up with, but it wouldn't deal with him until the 12/13 regeneration. So that I can maintain the thought of the unlikely notion I might have any sway in the show by then, I'm hoping he won't be explicitly featured or mentioned until then.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

MUCH better than last week's thrown together "What's kewl with the kids these days? Oh I know.....VAMPIRES!!!!1" episode.

And don't forget the Venetian Renaissance. Kids love that stuff.

 

[wamdue]

lets hope this episode has some good writing, as I think its going to a cheap one, CGI wise, dont even know if its going to have any proper aliens.

Give me plenty more like this, rather than the pathetic vampires one, ANY day.

You DO know that a good story can be something mind-bending, rather than new "rubber head of the week" thing, right?

How old are you any way?!?

yes im well aware of that thank you very much, but I am also well aware that CGI can create an fanatic environment for a story, which maybe even with a weak plot will entertain.

 

[Sci]

Aren't TARDIS grown not built?

Maybe they realised that that's a shit idea.

Or maybe they realized that it doesn't matter, because it's a piece of nonsense set design that we don't get to actually read and is just there to be an in-joke for the production crew.

 

[JoeZhang]

On the subject of the Valeyard, I've got ideas for the character that I think are better than anything anyone else has come up with, but it wouldn't deal with him until the 12/13 regeneration. So that I can maintain the thought of the unlikely notion I might have any sway in the show by then, I'm hoping he won't be explicitly featured or mentioned until then.

Hopefully never as he was a shite character played in the style of someone who needs a poo.

 

[davejames]

Absolutely loved it. Unlike last week's, which was about as generic and uninspired as you can get, this one had me completely riveted to the screen all the way through.

Yeah I know the dream idea has been done before, but somehow it still felt fresh and compelling here. As the Leadworth scenes were taking place in some unspecified future (5 years after the Doctor's and Amy's adventures together), I had no problem accepting that this could be a legitimate "flashforward" we were looking at.

And of course it was fun getting to hang out in the TARDIS a lot more too. I always had a soft spot for those TNG episodes where the crew would be stuck on the bridge or turbolift for a whole episode-- somehow it made the ship feel like more of a real place that people actually lived in (and of course it meant we could explore more of the ship in the process too).

I have to admit I was a bit confused by the ending though. It wasn't really clear to me at first that Amy and the Doctor were actually trying to kill themselves in that van, or later on when the Doctor blows up the TARDIS. I wish the direction had been a lot clearer on that.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Absolutely loved it. Unlike last week's, which was about as generic and uninspired as you can get, this one had me completely riveted to the screen all the way through.

Yeah I know the dream idea has been done before, but somehow it still felt fresh and compelling here. As the Leadworth scenes were taking place in some unspecified future (5 years after the Doctor's and Amy's adventures together), I had no problem accepting that this could be a legitimate "flashforward" we were looking at.

And of course it was fun getting to hang out in the TARDIS a lot more too. I always had a soft spot for those TNG episodes where the crew would be stuck on the bridge or turbolift for a whole episode-- somehow it made the ship feel like more of a real place that people actually lived in (and of course it meant we could explore more of the ship in the process too).

I have to admit I was a bit confused by the ending though. It wasn't really clear to me at first that Amy and the Doctor were actually trying to kill themselves in that van, or later on when the Doctor blows up the TARDIS. I wish the direction had been a lot clearer on that.

Amy basically said that if that was reality she didn't want to live without Rory, so they were trying to kill themselves in so much that Amy felt there was nothing to lose in the attempt because she'd either wake up and be with Rory again, or die which would be preferable to living without him.

The Doctor decided the TARDIS was a dream too, because the Dream Lord touched the console and averted the danger, and he couldn't do that because he has no physical form.

 

[davejames]

Amy basically said that if that was reality she didn't want to live without Rory, so they were trying to kill themselves in so much that Amy felt there was nothing to lose in the attempt because she'd either wake up and be with Rory again, or die which would be preferable to living without him.

The Doctor decided the TARDIS was a dream too, because the Dream Lord touched the console and averted the danger, and he couldn't do that because he has no physical form.

Well yeah I got that from the following scenes, but it wasn't really clear to me as it was happening.

The van didn't seem like it was driving fast enough to kill them, and it seemed a little too quick and easy how the Doctor just had to push a few buttons to blow up the TARDIS.

 

[davejames]

Oh yeah, and I didn't realize just how incredibly bow-legged Matt was until this episode, when we get all those shots of him walking down the street. I'm not used to seeing that on someone who isn't a lot older, like Patrick Troughton. Or Leslie Nielsen. lol

 

[Saul]

Great great episode, funnny, good pace, real action. The Doctor being chased by old people to the butchers was very funny. The scene with Amy and Rory was very touching as was her realizing how much she wanted him after he was gone. Loved the Dream lord and the hint that it's the Doctors collective evil thoughts and doings over the past 900 years. Bring on the Valeyard.

 

[wamdue]

The Doctor decided the TARDIS was a dream too, because the Dream Lord touched the console and averted the danger, and he couldn't do that because he has no physical form.

that and you could hear the bird song in both the TARDIS and Upper Leadworth

 

[DAK]

Wow I might wel have to watch it again because my initial thoughs were that it was terrible, seriously I felt like Fear Her and finally been overtaken!

It had some nice ideas, but the script and direction...I dunno it just felt really, really flat.

Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood?

I was really looking forward to this episode. Unfortunately I agree with you.

One line from Amy ruined this entire episode for me. Her reply to the Doctor when Rory died and he said he couldn't save everyone: "Then what's the point of you?" You could see how much that hurt him. I mean, WTF?! Who does she think she is? If she thinks so little of him, maybe she should just go back to her dull life on Earth and marry Rory. I've been trying to like Amy, she hasn't exactly been growing on me, but this killed it. I hope he dumps them both home.

So... your finance dies in front of you, quite pointlessly, with the man you've grown to expect to try his best to save lives right there the whole time, and you don't expect her to lash out randomly?! She's not a robot.

It was a completely cruel and hurtful thing to say to him, and she knew it. I would expect maybe something like "Oh why couldn't you save him, boo hoo, etc etc". But "What's the point of you?" was way below a low blow. What does she expect him to do, throw himself into a black hole because he can't save the entire universe? There's plenty a point to him, he's saved many millions of lives, and she full well knows that. I'm sorry, I don't like her. She's been rude, arrogant, acts bored when he's showing her the universe, and now she's deliberately cruel to him. Big step down for me for a character I already found annoying.

Loved the episode, myself. Great exploration of the Doctor's dark side, and Smith was brilliant, IMO.

I love Smith in the role. He's a much better actor than Tennant IMHO.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Excellent episode! The dilemma of figuring out which reality was the dream was interesting even though I was not really surprised that both were dreams. I especially liked the Dream Lord character. He had that quiet creepiness that makes a good villain. I think he would make a great recurring character. Smith is doing a great job as the doctor.

 

[Starkers]

lets hope this episode has some good writing, as I think its going to a cheap one, CGI wise, dont even know if its going to have any proper aliens.

Give me plenty more like this, rather than the pathetic vampires one, ANY day.

You DO know that a good story can be something mind-bending, rather than new "rubber head of the week" thing, right?

How old are you any way?!?

What's age got to do with anything?

This was dull, a knockoff of Red Dwarf's Better than Life with seeds instead of the despair squid, and a rehash of about 150 TNG holodeck gone wrong episodes. Worst than that it was just so badly directed, just really lumpen. Maybe if Adam Smith had done this one as well it might have had a bit of life to it...

Anyone who thinks this was mind bending needs to get out more (assuming they let you out the old folks home of course )

 

[Guy Gardener]

From the ad, I was expecting something a little more mind bendy than this.

(Davison's Doctor was trapped in a little Village that had become unhooked from time just a few months ago in audio land.)

But, all thought is theft.

It's very rare that any one does a story that hasn't been done before, so we can either spaz out or just roll with the punches.

You know me.

I am completely in the "lets spaz out" camp.

Valeyard aside, he could just be an unpotentuated "watcher" like that bloke who was running around in the ass end of Logopolis? Considering all the Aid proto5 Watcher was able to afford his companions while 4 was busy clowning about...

Watchers are Timelord Sperm.

Following the metaphor.

Why just shoot off one?

That's hardly going to get the job done if there are daleks in the way?

(Can Watchers chose not to begin a regeneration? Or just hold off and wait? Consider Curse of the fatal deaths? The Doctor lost four bodies just because he forgot to unplug some doohicky he was playing with. Timelord sperm are lemmings?)

Survival of the fittest?

Have them all fight and race to be the next doctor even if the current is REALLY not ready to shuffle off yet?

Dozens or hundreds of these bastards out there all with a mind to destroy and replace the doctor, not because they're evil but as in line with some sort of biological imperative?

And after one of them timelord lemming sperm wins?

What happens to all the other watchers who show up late, after the time lord in question has already been regenerated?

Fade off with dignity into the sunset?

Or force the bastard dead and refaced all over again?

I mean we all know about frighting sperm.

Sperm from different men inside the same woman, maybe even sperm from the same man but different volleys, I'm not sure, some of them, their job is to kill the competition rather than take mark and head towards the egg.

More so than potential 12 or 13, the dream lord could be alternate/redundant 11 or 10, and he's RE-AAAAAAALLy late to the party and quite a bad loser?

 

[Australis]

GG, you is gettin' stranger, and that's sayin' sumfin!

 

[Captain Pike]

Thought it was rather good. Some bits were very funny, and there was the one tearjerker moment which worked very well.

There was something very traditional about it.

The Dream Lord was interesting. What's the consensus, is he the Valeyard?