5x03 Victory of the Daleks (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!

[WillsBabe]

A poor episode in my opinion. Very poor. I also felt Matt Smith was weak, too. For me, it's like he couldn't find the character in this episode. In fact there's so much I hate about this episode that I'm not going to go into it. It'd turn into a tirade. OTOH, I did like the Jammy Dodger ruse, and when the Doctor punched Bracewell (because of his physical ineptitude).

 

[Jim Steele]

I'm fine with a mad romp, but I still think at least a little bit of internal logic and consistency is required.

Agreed. Nobody is suggesting it should be realistic, but verisimilitude is important even in a show with such a daft and fantastic premise as Who.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Isn't this kind of the epitath for DW in general?

For RTD Who maybe,

Sorry, oldWho was just as ridiculous and frequently more so. Worse, they dragged thin premises out over hour after hour of serial segments which were padded to the hilt with trivial and repetitious incident that added nothing of value to the tale.

But that's the dead past, and now we're talking about what's being created in the present.

Whatever other failings it may have, at least nuWho is dependably energetic.

 

[Mr Awe]

This episode had really good, really strong tension right up until the point where the Daleks started explaining their plan to the Doctor.

The same was true for me as well. The problem is that they started explaining it sometime like 6-10 minutes into the episode.

.... it was just the Daleks and the Doctor barking at each other. And the Daleks explaining their dastardly plan. It took up most of the remainder of the episode.

And, for much of it, the Doctor was just standing around chatting with the Daleks! Then the Spitfires in space. And, then the silly disarming of the bomb. I liked Bracewell as a character and a concept. Somehow, disarming him like that just didn't work for me.

Mr Awe

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

And, for much of it, the Doctor was just standing around chatting with the Daleks! Then the Spitfires in space. And, then the silly disarming of the bomb. I liked Bracewell as a character and a concept. Somehow, disarming him like that just didn't work for me.

The rapidity with which Bracewell turned his hypotheses into actual anti-gravity Spitfires got a much bigger laugh from me than did Bracewell himself. Damn, deactivating him would have been criminal - they should have sent him to the Manhattan Project.

All in all, this was the weakest of the three offerings thus far this season and just about as silly as any episode of nuWho we've seen. I sure enjoyed it, though.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Agreed. Nobody is suggesting it should be realistic, but verisimilitude is important even in a show with such a daft and fantastic premise as Who.

Some measure of versimilitude is always necessary, but RTD and Moffat seem to agree that emotional impact and narrative energy is much more important than strict plot logic and the tying up of loose ends.

I have affectionately started to call that approach lolgic.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

lolgic - love it!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

That is kind of cute. Lologic...

 

[wamdue]

lolgic - love it!

we are going to start using that phrase arnt we?

 

[DimesDan]

lolgic - love it!

we are going to start using that phrase arnt we?

Yes, yes we are, it's lolgical.

 

[Jim Steele]

I have affectionately started to call that approach lolgic.

 

[davejames]

Is it really too much to ask for Daleks that don't look like they're made of plastic? I mean, hell, they managed to make the Daleks who were infiltrating the War Room look like metal -- why not the new Master Daleks? (I've given up on them ever not bouncing the eye stalks up and down when they talk. The Dalek in "Dalek" was much creepier for its stillness, for my money.)

The thing I find a bit silly and unnecessary is how they still make the Dalek shake when it talks-- even the huge new ones. Aren't the blinky lights enough of a clue as to which one's doing the talking??

I suppose you could argue that it represents the barely suppressed fury of the Dalek inside. Or something. But it still looks a bit goofy and cheap to me.

 

[Bones2]

Isn't this kind of the epitath for DW in general?

For RTD Who maybe,

Yeah, because an old man riding in a time machine that looks like a phone box through space while fighting murderous salt shakers and men in toy robot costumes was ever so much more intelligent and plausible back in the old days.

Well you can post obnoxious emoticons all you like, but that's the conceit of the show. But the RTD version usually acted as though because the science fiction elements are fictional, then you don't have to take them remotely seriously; just give a bit of CGI spectacle, a deus ex machina resolution, and have some crying and snogging at the end. Moffat's stories, on the other hand, are usually consistent, and that's why they're a more satisfying watch. Victory felt very RTD, and it's definitely not something I'd want to go back to.

 

[The]

But the RTD version usually acted as though because the science fiction elements are fictional, then you don't have to take them remotely seriously; just give a bit of CGI spectacle, a deus ex machina resolution, and have some crying and snogging at the end. Moffat's stories, on the other hand, are usually consistent, and that's why they're a more satisfying watch. Victory felt very RTD, and it's definitely not something I'd want to go back to.

I agree completely. As I've said before, VotD felt like a rejected RTD script with little bits shuffled to make it Eleven and Amy...

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

One thing, is there a wallpaper anywhere of that excellent WWII vintage Dalek poster? I can't remember what it said exactly but it was lying around when (IIRC) Churchill was describing his plans for the Daleks.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

Google was my friend, and he is yours too.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Google was my friend, and he is yours too.

Excellent, thank you!

 

[VDCNI]

The plot is still pretty ridiculous and nonsensical of course, but somehow... I didn't really mind as much. Once you accept it as just a crazy adventure, it actually kinda works.

Isn't this kind of the epitath for DW in general?

For RTD Who maybe, but when you have to not think in order to enjoy something, then it's not doing it right.

So I assume you've never watched Earthshock or The Chase? Old Who had its fair share of switch off and enjoy stories.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So I assume you've never watched Earthshock or The Chase? Old Who had its fair share of switch off and enjoy stories.

There's no respect in which oldWho is more plausible, intelligent or ambitious than nuWho. Guess that's because it was a children's show too.

 

[Mr. Sin]

Clearly you are unfamiliar with Chris Bidmead and his Hard sci-fi season of Doctor Who (18)