50th Anniversary Rewatch Thread

[3D ChessMaster]

Ito

Space Seed. Great Episode. Ricardo Montalban is fantastic. Total machismo and gravitas. I found it interesting when Scotty comments in the briefing room about how he had a sneaking admiration for this one(Khan). I got the impression that they did not know who Khan was at the beginning of the episode. Now Scotty talks like he has known about him for years. Also when Uhura got slapped, that is a very powerful scene with great meaning. Nichelle Nichols really gave a great performance in her reaction. That look on her face said it all.
Return of the Archons- I will back track one week since I did not comment on this one last week. I always like the Archons. The commentary on religion is fascinating. Landru the great all powerful leader that everybody must obey. A classic Star Trek trope. The brainwashing of the entire population. A peaceful (most of the time) population, but soulless. Plus, I always liked saying Festival and You're not of the body. Fun stuff that never gets old. Of course Kirk defeats the computer again. Very comforting.

Return of the Archons , funnily I found it quite addictive to say 'I am Landru' as well as 'You are of the body' Interesting that given the the subject of the episode that the scriptwriter had hit on some compelling catchphrases.

Space Seed was the epitome of the recurrent theme that naively someone or something potentially dangerous was given access to the Enterprise's banks of information

 

[UnknownSample]

It might be true for me that with most ST episodes, the most interesting part is the unfilmed implications of the situation they set up, and the implied backstory. Khan himself isn't what's great, and he doesn't need to be. All the things they get you thinking about are the real star of the episode.
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--The world of the 1960s seemed bland and sterile, with romanticism and adventure being long gone. On SS, we see a new romantic era that will come within our own lifetimes.
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Great SF material, improving Man through genetics, the consequences for society... resulting in WW3. This is what swims through my head watching SS, not Khan's entertainment value. Wrath of Khan fixates on Khan himself as a "villain", all ideas left out. The SS backstory of the 1990s is like a film compressed into a TV episode. It goes on in your head while watching Khan's shenanigans. It's what's important.
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[The Old Mixer]

The world of the 1960s seemed bland and sterile

You must not be looking in the right places.

 

[NickintheATL]

Just adding some interesting stuff to note this week: Ricardo Montalban was actually on TV twice in one week 50 years ago. The first appearance being "Space Seed," the second was on Saturday night on CBS, on "Mission: Impossible" in the episode "Snowball in Hell". Obviously it's one of those multiple bookings that Joe D'Agosta was known for at Desilu.

Also, this coming Friday, February 24th is the anniversary of "The Time Tunnel" episode "Chase Through Time", written by "Space Seed" story writer Carey Wilber. (If you were watching MeTV last night, they showed this episode!)

 

[UnknownSample]

You must not be looking in the right places.

My parents wouldn't let me...

 

[The Old Mixer]

Well, in their time and for decades to come, the '60s were considered a time of tumultuous change. The space race; the Cuban Missile Crisis; Civil Rights; the assassinations of two Kennedys and Martin Luther King; Vietnam; the British Invasion, soul, and psychedelia; the counterculture...I doubt people in the '60s were sitting around thinking, "This decade is so boring...I hope we have a World War to look forward to!"

Even as a teenager in the '80s, I was growing up in a world that thought a nuclear war in our lifetimes was inevitable. Not a "romantic" notion at all. But I developed an interest in '60s culture because it seemed like a more colorful and interesting time than the '80s (which in my experience were a very conservative and conformist time, don't let the wild fashions in music videos fool you). People of my generation were being called "slackers" because we weren't out there marching in the streets and whatnot like the previous generation had been in their formative years.

 

[UnknownSample]

The 60s were a sort of battle between a restrictive soul-deadening culture made by the WW2 generation, and the next generation who were rebelling against that. I am going by my having grown up in that time. Think "Little Boxes" by Pete Seeger. Identical, bland, cookie-cutter suburban boxes aka houses, identical lawns... glass box skyscrapers... muzak...

Anyway, my real point was just that in the 60s, the time of romantic heroism, swashbuckling, etc, was the stuff of old movies, with there being no room for anything like that in the present.

 

[dahj]

Anyway, my real point was just that in the 60s, the time of romantic heroism, swashbuckling, etc, was the stuff of old movies, with there being no room for anything like that in the present.

Wasn't shooting people into space for the first time seen as kind of a big adventurous thing?

 

[The Old Mixer]

The 60s were a sort of battle between a restrictive soul-deadening culture made by the WW2 generation, and the next generation who were rebelling against that. I am going by my having grown up in that time. Think "Little Boxes" by Pete Seeger. Identical, bland, cookie-cutter suburban boxes aka houses, identical lawns... glass box skyscrapers... muzak...

Anyway, my real point was just that in the 60s, the time of romantic heroism, swashbuckling, etc, was the stuff of old movies, with there being no room for anything like that in the present.

OK, and from your perspective in the '60s, you saw an impending World War in which "whole populations [would be] bombed out of existence" as a "romantic era"?

 

[UnknownSample]

OK, and from your perspective in the '60s, you saw an impending World War in which "whole populations [would be] bombed out of existence" as a "romantic era"?

Of course not, why would anybody? It was the figure of Khan, a sort of glamorous type figure people could condemn but secretly admire for his spirit and magnetism.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Of course not, why would anybody?

--The world of the 1960s seemed bland and sterile, with romanticism and adventure being long gone. On SS, we see a new romantic era that will come within our own lifetimes.

 

[UnknownSample]

Well, guess what... I know what I said. It's not JUST Khan, but many of his fellow mutants too, and their reigns, which must have recalled those of conquerors of past centuries, only with modern weapons.
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That was a lot of what Space Seed was about... and that bland era never really ended. Rock music livened things up, along with consumer choices... it's not all stuff like Velveeta and Wonder Bread anymore... but it's still hard to imagine a new Napoleon or Alexander coming along. You know, those figures you can have a sneaking admiration for, as Scotty put it, I think. We're all consumers with safety built into everything.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Well, guess what... I know what I said.

Perhaps more awareness of how people were going to read it when given no further explanation would have been in order, then. And four posts later, I still can't say that I agree with the sentiment, but you're entitled to your worldview.

 

[3D ChessMaster]

Though I don't see the 60s as a boring period,
I think Unknown Sample makes a great point about a strong part of the appeal of many ST episodes being the thoughts it prompts about things rather than the dramatic plot. That's part of why I am posting about the show nearly 50 years after first seeeing it.
I also see Space Seed as better than Wrath of Khan as it sparks more thoughts about issues like genetic engineering, eugenics , the appeal and cause of dictatorships.

 

[dahj]

It was the figure of Khan, a sort of glamorous type figure people could condemn but secretly admire for his spirit and magnetism.

Wouldn't Fidel Castro kinda fit that bill?

Also, at the time Che Guevara literally became a cultural icon and a symbol of that sort of "romantic heroism"...

 

[The Old Mixer]

If only we had more would-be world conquerors in my lifetime. Boring ol' atomic bomb ruined everything.

 

[Tallguy]

If only we had more would-be world conquerors in my lifetime. Boring ol' atomic bomb ruined everything.

Saddam doesn't count?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Saddam doesn't count?

Ask @UnknownSample , it's his thing...but I don't think Saddam was ever in any danger of being Napoleon or Alexander.

 

[UnknownSample]

I'm not expressing any world view. I'm saying a pretty obvious thing, that in this modern world, we look to the past for magnetic, romantic adventurer types. They can be heroes, or of ambiguous morality. The Scarlet Pimpernel, Robin Hood, The Three Musketeers, but also Napoleon and Alexander... attractive because of their power and danger. No colorful, larger-than-life characters like Napoleons or Robin Hoods anymore. That's why they had to make movies about them.
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So, one of the ideas of Space Seed was... what if in the near future, within our own lifetimes, a sort of romanticism, with those larger than life figures, happened again? Despite the sanitized, processed, adventure-free modern world? It's almost sort of hopeful. In a crazy sort of way.
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I'm not saying it's rational or "sensible". No need to point out to me that nuclear explosions aren't romantic. But that's the mindset. Just listen to Kirk and company getting all nostalgic for that era and its worst dictators...

 

[dahj]

"A Taste of Armageddon", Episode 23, February 23rd

Tonight's Episode: On a diplomatic mission to Alderaan, Enterprise gets embroiled in a centuries old conflict over funny hats. But wait, the conflict is actually run by Spock's favourite friends, the Computers! It's Interplanetary Thermonuclear Disintegration time, would you like to play a game?