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Apparently Mark Lenard was supposed to play Lincoln originally but couldn't due to scheduling conflicts.
It would have been even more confusing if he was to play Surak...
If you can play a gorilla you can play anything...
50th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
If you can play a gorilla you can play anything...
Savage Curtain is notable for the following quote:
"There is no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war except its ending."
This quote has actually been 1) attributed to the real Abraham Lincoln by people who should know better and 2) seems to be interpreted as a pacifist statement. But the first part of the quote is "We fight on their level. With trickery, brutality, finality. We match their evil." And it's followed by "And you are fighting for the lives of your crew."
I have to admit that as I learned the terrible reputation that season 3 has, I looked to episodes like this, and Enterprise Incident, and All Our Yesterdays (I liked it) to refute that claim.
I love this episode.
"There is no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war except its ending."
This quote has actually been 1) attributed to the real Abraham Lincoln by people who should know better and 2) seems to be interpreted as a pacifist statement. But the first part of the quote is "We fight on their level. With trickery, brutality, finality. We match their evil." And it's followed by "And you are fighting for the lives of your crew."
I have to admit that as I learned the terrible reputation that season 3 has, I looked to episodes like this, and Enterprise Incident, and All Our Yesterdays (I liked it) to refute that claim.
I love this episode.
That sounds a little like: "we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"
Depends on the source Roddenberry made a lot of after-the-fact bogus claims like that.Apparently Mark Lenard was supposed to play Lincoln originally but couldn't due to scheduling conflicts.
It would have been even more confusing if he was to play Surak...
He was a more moderate abolitionist, but he was one, since he believed in abolishing slavery. There's a big difference between what one wants, and what one believes is possible politically. A competent politician must deal in compromise, even on an issue like this where morality is involved. As the war progressed, he went from a position of looking for any workable compromise to save the Union (the Union was losing), to feeling more and more that he might actually be able to get away with what he wanted, total abolition, that it actually helped the cause of the Union.
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In context, I'm not shocked at his feelings that the races were not equal. I'm listening to many books from a century ago or older. People get swept away by opinions surrounding them. We should all consider radical ideas like total equality was then, but how many of us do? A degraded group is made to appear inferior by the degraders.
Today radicality, in certain circles, is considered more and more acceptable. We'll have something to worry about when people of the past will be thought to be "too moderate".
I'm glad Lenard didn't play Lincoln, or Surak for that matter. I like him, but the repeat casting would be too much.
That's not what "abolitionist" meant in 1860. Abolitionism was an established movement with its own leaders, organizations and extensive literature, and was well understood throughout the country. Lincoln was not a part of the movement, and was widely regarded as too moderate by abolitionists and Radical Republicans before and during the war.
You can easily Google the answer. I just did. It's not that, and AFAIK he wasn't.
A distinctly minority opinion:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/11/were-lincoln-nixon-gay-history-book-divides-america
When that happens, the new ideas cease to be labeled as "radical", and what is considered "too radical" changes.
Well he was great as Chief Urko but I'm glad that he didn't play Lincoln as that might have diluted his Sarek characterisation a little later on!
JB
I'm thinking that Surak, Lincoln, Colonel Green were derived from Kirk and Spock's memories/imagination. So the goodies were idealised versions and the baddies 2 dimensional villains.
Its interesting that Surak is critical of Spock indicating that Spock doesn't exactly love himself.
Its interesting that Surak is critical of Spock indicating that Spock doesn't exactly love himself.
)
Ahhhhh, the last episode of TOS!
That is to say the last one before the last one...
I'm SURE I don't know what you're talking about.
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